Welcome to the 2024 Indiana gubernatorial candidate debate.

Tonight's debate is presented by the Indiana Debate Commission.

Made possible with the generous support of the Indiana.

Broadcasters Association, the Indiana State Bar Association, and.

The Indiana Coalition for Open Government.

Tonight's debate is hosted by Wfyi at their television studios in Indianapolis.

Founded in 2007, the Indiana Debate Commission is the longest.

Serving independent.

Nonprofit and commission of its kind in the nation.

Voters of Indiana are invited to submit questions for future debates.

Learn about the.

Organization and.

Support its work by visiting Indiana Debate commission.com.

And now the 2024 Indiana gubernatorial debate.

Good evening, and welcome to the 2024 Indiana gubernatorial debate organized by the independent, nonpartisan Indiana Debate Commission.

We're live in the studios of Wfyi in downtown Indianapolis.

And in just a moment, you'll hear from the three candidates on the ballot this fall.

My name is Laura merrifield Wilson, and I have the privilege of serving as your debate moderator for this evening.

I'm an associate professor of political science at the University of Indianapolis and a member of the Indiana Debate Commission.

Now we'll meet the candidates.

Lectern positions in question order were chosen by a drawing.

The first candidate is former Indiana Superintendent of Public Instruction, Democrat Jennifer McCormick.

The second candidate is current U.S.

Senator Republican Mike Braun.

The third candidate is software engineer and libertarian nominee Donald Rainwater.

The debate Commission has selected tonight's questions from hundreds of ideas submitted by Hoosiers all across the state.

These topics have not been shared in advance with the candidates.

The rules for our debate are simple.

Candidates will have one minute to make an opening statement.

Then I'll begin the questions.

Each candidate will have one minute to respond to each question.

Candidates may request an opportunity for a 32nd rebuttal as needed by raising their hands.

In the interest of time.

We ask that candidates avoid prolonged back and forth debate on a single topic so we can cover as many voter questions as possible.

As the moderator, I have the discretion to ask a follow up question if needed.

To clarify candidate's response.

Let's begin with the opening statements.

We'll hear first from Jennifer McCormick.

Miss McCormick, you have one minute to make an opening statement.

Good evening.

Hoosiers.

I am Jennifer McCormick.

I am a wife, and I am a proud military mom.

I'm a fifth generation farm family teacher, businesswoman, local school superintendent, and your last elected state superintendent of public instruction as a Republican.

During that time, when you voted for me in 2016, you did so because of my values and because you trust that I could get the job done.

My values haven't changed and I proved I could get the job done.

This year, the comparison to governor is very contrasting.

I, for one, ask yourself why do we have a huge surplus?

But our roads are in disrepair.

Why are teachers and health care providers leaving the state?

No one seems to care.

Why do we have less freedoms today than we did a year ago?

Why?

Utility costs are skyrocketing along with your health care costs, and no one's doing anything about it.

I will address those core issues, but I will also bring common sense and balance.

I'm Jennifer McCormick and I will be our next governor.

Next, we'll hear from Mr. Braun.

You have one minute.

It's been an honor serving a Hoosiers as your U.S. senator over the last six years.

I weighed in.

And committees.

Health, education, labor, pensions, agriculture.

All issues important to us here, especially health care, education, agriculture.

I also was lucky to go back to my hometown and raise a family, grow a business for kids, three of whom work in the business I ran for 37 years.

That is the American dream.

When I travel, visit all 92 counties every year, I listen and you learn things like health care, education, agriculture, jobs and the economy, the quality of life and public safety are all big issues, and I've got to experience that.

Look at the track records of whether you get something done, not whether you're going to say you're going to do it.

And I can give you proven leadership with results and take Indiana to a place we've not been before.

Finally, we'll hear from Mr. Rainwater.

You have one minute.

Good evening, fellow Hoosiers.

First, I'd like to thank the Indiana Debate Commission and Wfyi for hosting this debate so that, you, the voter, can have the opportunity to hear all of the perspectives.

President Ronald Reagan once said, you can't be for big government, big taxes and big bureaucracy and still be for the little guy.

Well, we've got a lot of little guys in Indiana who are struggling because of the economy, because of inflation.

And we're told that inflation is caused by government printing money and then spending it, and our state government spending a lot of money.

And we need a governor who will stop the bleeding of the spending.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Candidates will now go to our first question.

Miss McCormack, the economy is top of mind for many voters.

What will you do as a governor to attract and retain well-paid jobs?

Miss McCormick, you answer first, please.

Yes.

Thank you for the question.

We put out our common sense economic development plan, and it has been very well received by Republicans, Democrats and independents.

People were excited because it was very much about common sense and bringing back balance to the statehouse.

And after 20 years of one party rule, it's time.

Our plan address.

Let's do what?

What Indiana's doing.

Well, we're very business friendly and doing some of those things well, where we're targeting resources to the regions where they need to go.

So we will continue that.

But also, when you look at what we're not doing well or where we can step it up, up is the human capital.

We need to make sure that our workforce is healthy and we are educated and our consumers are healthy and they are educated.

That means prioritizing getting those health care costs down, making sure we have reproductive freedoms, also, making sure we have access to health care and prioritize education, including child care for our youngest of young Hoosiers.

For us, it's about common sense, and it's about balance.

Thank you, Mr. Braun.

So this is probably the category I feel most comfortable with.

Educated with a, economics degree from Wabash College, MBA.

Moving back to my hometown.

There's nothing.

You learn more.

And when you get involved in a small business.

I did that for nearly 20 years and then scaling it into a regional, eventually national company.

Three of my four kids now run it again.

That's the American dream.

If you're really going to have an idea of what to do, I think it's important that you've lived through it.

I've seen the front side of a paycheck my entire career in that business grew from a little one to a regional, national company.

Our state has all kinds of potential, but we need to spread economic development out across all four corners of the state.

We need to fertilize the field of small business and entrepreneurs, and the one entity that is for small business, National Federation of Independent Businesses endorsed me in this race.

Thank you, Mr. Rainwater.

So, fellow Hoosiers, first of all, we have to realize that, they're telling us that the economy is doing great.

But when you sit down at your kitchen table, you probably know that that's not the life that you're living.

Inflation is really, really hurting most Hoosiers.

And the reality is, is that we don't need more jobs.

The U.S. Chamber of Commerce says that we have a worker shortage in this state.

We need to stop bringing in more jobs, because these jobs that they keep bringing in are causing people to leave small businesses.

And these small businesses are having to close because they can't staff themselves.

And the reality is, is that's happening because they don't really care about small businesses in Indiana, just the big corporations.

And we need to change that.

Thank you.

Several Hoosiers shared concerns about a lack of affordable housing.

Michelle, a resident of Anderson who works in real estate, says we currently have a shortage of affordable houses and have not planned for future population growth.

And she asks, what will you do as governor to help with the housing supply and affordability in Indiana?

Mr.. Brian, this is your question first.

So affordable housing is one of the things I hear along with childcare, rural broadband that tear underneath health care and education.

I'm already out there finding entrepreneurs who are looking for solutions cooked medical group.

a friend of mine that runs that business has found out how to actually build a three bedroom home that you can afford.

And he did that during Covid.

We're not going to fix it through government.

We want to make sure that our own state gets out of the way.

Doesn't have regulations that are going to make it difficult.

But entrepreneurs will figure that out.

The federal government is not going to be weighing in and doing it responsibly.

Our own state can help make that easy for the folks that know how to do it.

And a lot of that had to do with the contractor getting along with the local jurisdiction to make sure utilities got stubbed in in a way that was going to really reduce the cost of a starter home.

Thank you, Mr. Rainwater.

Well, folks, first of all, one of the things that affects affordable housing is property taxes.

And we need to do two things with property taxes.

One, we need to make sure that they never go up.

Two, we need to make sure that they have an end date.

I have proposed a plan that would do that.

Secondly, we need to understand that our current government system is rewarding.

development of big, new, expensive houses, and nobody has an incentive or a reason to go rehab the existing homes that are in places like Muncie Anderson that are sitting vacant, vacant.

Pardon me.

And we need to go ahead and refocus on actually rehabbing areas so that there's affordable housing for young families.

Mr. Braun, I see that you have a rebuttal, but I'd like to give miss McCormick the opportunity to speak first, and then you can rebut.

Thank you.

So obviously, the state government needs to work with our local level leaders.

But I do want to address we put out a common sense property tax plan that was bipartisan.

That went very, very well.

And because of that, people were comparing it to other candidates.

Mr. Brons had to be revised a few times because it didn't do that.

It didn't return money to where the money needed to go back to Hoosiers.

Also, Mr. Braun brought up childcare and broadband, and those are two areas that he voted against in Indiana.

So those moneys that could have come back federally when he was a U.S. senator, he voted against $1 million for broadband and against the child tax credit.

That's how you put money in the pockets of Hoosier so that we have more for housing.

But it goes back to our common sense property tax plan, but it also goes back to fair lending and making sure that we're protecting our renters and being a good partner with our local level leaders.

Thank you, Mr. Brown.

You have 30s for a bottle, please.

So property taxes have been by far the most discussed item in the last two years.

I've been visiting every county, and it's also the lifeblood of school districts and local government.

So you don't have to be entrepreneurial.

You're going to have to make sure they are funded properly.

But when you're growing taxes faster than the ability of the taxpayer to pay it, you're going to be shoving people out of their homes.

That would be counter productive.

My plans being received well thank you.

We received several questions from voters who are interested in education and believe it's an important step for the governor to set a tone on education policy.

Laura, an independent voter from 12 mile, noted that Indiana is a school choice state with near-universal eligibility to participate in the school voucher program.

She asks, what is your position on school choice, and should private and charter schools that accept taxpayer money be held to the same standards and testing requirements as traditional public schools?

Mr. rainwater, you get to go first.

So, fellow Hoosiers, first of all, I am, 100% in favor of universal school choice.

But we need to understand that our public school system is a monopoly in the state of Indiana, and monopolies traditionally drive down quality and drive up cost.

We spend half of our state budget on public education in Indiana, and according to our statewide standardized testing, only 63% of our students are proficient in math and English.

When I was in school, 63% was an F. So we have a lot of work to do to rethink education completely from the ground up.

The common school philosophy was great.

In 1837, but this is 2024.

Thank you, miss McCormick.

Hoosiers are concerned about education, and rightfully so.

I inherited a state that was ranked in the mid 30s, and now we're down to 41st.

And so it is concerning.

It is very concerning.

I also know, too, that that's because of 20 years of one party rule that has had total control of education policy, that has been signaled by many, many practitioner ers.

This isn't working, and we have to have an educated and healthy workforce, and we have to have an educated and healthy consumer.

I am for not school choice.

I am for parent and student choice.

And there is a big difference.

Indiana system is school choice, where the schools can pick and choose who they want to take.

For a lot of different reasons.

It's not up to the parent and it's not up to the child.

I'm about making sure all kids have access to a world class education, and 90% of our families have said that is public education.

And Indiana is on a dangerous path of attacking public education to a dismal response of our economy and also educational attainment.

I will bring that back.

Mr. rainwater, I see you have a rebuttal, but I'd like to give Mr. Braun his opportunity to answer the question first.

60s.

Mr. Braun.

I'm going to have to agree that if you don't have choice and competition, you're trying to defend a one size fits all system.

And over time, things have got to evolve.

And parents should be in the driver's seat, no doubt about it.

I could not get that out of the Secretary of Education when I interviewed him on health education, labor and pensions.

And we need to make sure we align it in a way that it's data driven, that we're creating skills training, direction for what?

College degree based upon high demand, high wage jobs where we can keep those jobs in Indiana filled with graduates from our own families and our own schools.

We have not done that as well as you can, but it's never going to be done with one system that doesn't have options for parents and kids.

Choice is a part of it.

Good public school systems like my kids went to, and my grandkids and myself will always be there and they'll be enabled.

But it's got to be measured and it has to be based upon results.

Mr. rainwater, I'll give you 30s for rebuttal.

And then, miss McCormick, you may also have 30s for rebuttal.

Fellow Hoosiers government's main focus today is on creating dependency.

They want you to be dependent on them so that they can tell you what to do, so they can tell you where to go and what to think.

And there's no place that that is a bigger problem than in our public school system.

We need choice so that parents and students can decide what the educational opportunities are and what they should do with them.

Thank you, miss McCormick.

You have 30s for rebuttal.

Like many Hoosiers, we understand the concept of being fiscally conservative, and it is a shame that we've moved away from that with 20 years of one party rule.

I believe in making sure that we are watching programs when $1.6 billion is going into a program that is not getting academic results.

That is having a private schools boom everywhere without any transparency or accountability.

It's $1.6 billion, and Hoosiers deserve accountability, transparency and some answers.

Hoosiers across the political spectrum from Evansville, Wheatfield, Melton and Franklin to Greenwood, Gaston and Indianapolis submitted questions about your plans for reducing property taxes.

Several retirees expressed concern that they won't be able to make ends meet while current workers.

Wondered how each candidate would maintain services currently funded by property taxes, including police, fire, sidewalk and street repairs, parks, libraries and other local services.

The question is this how will you balance Hoosiers desire for low property taxes with the choice two main critical services?

Many that we've already heard about this evening.

Miss McCormick, you'll answer first, please.

Property taxes are a huge concern across the state of Indiana.

And I've told Hoosiers as soon as I am elected, we have a plan.

Day one ready to go and has a fiscal which my opponent did not.

It has language which my opponents did not.

It was well-received because it has bipartisan from great senators who are Republican and Democrat.

And it's ready to go.

It gives relief to every single Hoosier, particularly seniors, renters and veterans and all homeowners.

But it also protects the local level.

Having been a local superintendent and I understand the power of police.

Fifth generation farm family, we have to protect that local level.

So we have parks and fire and police and and schools.

And so my opponent's plan went after that and 25% increase for farmers.

And that's just not going to work for Hoosiers.

Thank you, Mr. Braun.

So the thing that you got to do is make sure that each year government does not grow faster than your economy, number one, or the ability of taxpayers to pay it.

So my plan clearly put a lid on the bill to where it can't go up more than 3% for everyone, 2% for vulnerable property tax payers.

And then when it comes to what's happened to homeownership, that's kicked the most vulnerable out of their homes with property taxes going up, it resets it to where it was pre-COVID.

And for the jurisdictions that took their rates down to reflect the increase in assessed value.

It won't impact them at all for the ones that didn't.

It's going to be transparent.

You won't be able to hide behind an opaque system, and if you want more, you appeal to the taxpayers and ask them for it.

Don't do it behind closed doors.

Thank you, Mr. Braun.

Miss McCormick, you asked for rebuttal, but I'd like to give Mr. Rainwater the opportunity to ans So, fellow Hoosiers, that's a lot of word salad.

The reality is, is that neither plan from my opponents keeps property taxes at a static level.

And neither one offers a way where property taxes end.

The government uses TIF districts tax abatements for corporations to, make sure that local government can, do things with your money that, don't involve local services.

Local governments have plenty of other funding mechanisms.

You need to be able to live in your home and have the security to know that your property taxes will never increase, and that someday they will end so that you don't have government standing over you, threatening to take your property if you fall behind.

Thank you.

Several voters.

Oh, yes.

I'm sorry, miss McCormick.

You have a 32nd rebuttal.

My apologies.

Yes.

I listened to Mr. Braun talk about his plan.

And like I said, ours is ready.

Day one with the fiscal.

With language well received, bipartisan language.

from a lot of smart senators in our state House and and I want to know for clarity for the Hoosiers which version that he was talking about because for the mayors and at the local level, our police, our firemen and our schools, they are very, very concerned about what's coming out from Senator Braun's team because it's nonsensical.

It is not doable, and it's not ready on day one.

And we still don't have a fiscal.

Mr. Braun, you requested 30s.

That may be your opinion of it.

but from all the mayors and councilmen and commissioners I've talked to, they like the plan because it's clear the.

Second you're going to have version.

It's clear because it is going to actually address the issue.

And there are other ways to raise revenue.

Yours is unchecked.

And by the way, when you were running the school system, things got worse after you were there.

And that's your only involvement in public service property taxes.

I'd, take issue with that.

You're going to have a way to actually remedy the problem.

Mr. rainwater, you also requested a battle.

But I'll remind the candidates, we have so many great voter questions.

We want to get to.

So I'm going to give Mr. Rainwater 30s here to rebut.

First fellow Hoosiers.

I just want to point out to you that my opponents are arguing over which group of bureaucrats support their property tax plan.

Nobody other than me is talking about how property taxes affect you and what you need to worry about.

They're worried about other bureaucrats supporting them.

Thank you.

I'd like to go ahead and move on.

miss McCormack, you'll have the opportunity to address that in the future.

And I very much appreciate us being able to tackle so many great voter questions that we received.

So several voters expressed concerns about a perceived worker shortage in the state.

Melissa, a social services worker from Evansville, notes that people with disabilities have doubled the unemployment rate of people without disabilities and suggests this is a large pool of potential opportunities that employers are under utilizing.

Melissa asks, what are your plans to address unemployment for disabled persons in the public and private sectors?

Mr.. Brian, it's your turn to go first, please.

So workforce over the last six years of traveling, the state has been by far until property taxes came along.

What most Hoosiers are worried about because we currently have it imbalanced.

We don't produce enough Stem degrees at highest stratum of post-secondary education.

We need more of them.

But we've got 150,000 jobs that need better trades and skills.

And among the disabled, among those that are in our Department of Corrections, we've got to tap all those sources and make sure that we're getting folks there to capture these high demand, high wage jobs.

3 to $4 billion we put into the economy.

If we don't get it right, you send somebody on the wrong, route in life, you end up leaving the state to find a job back in the basement.

That's the single biggest thing we can get done, right?

And I've got a lot of experience at getting it done, building a business and being on committees.

Thank you.

And back here, that, Bank weighing in on it.

Mr. rainwater.

Fellow Hoosiers.

I can't tell you what's best for you.

I can't tell you what the right path is to put you on.

That's for you to decide.

And when it comes to, the issue of, better employment for disabled Hoosiers, what we need to do is we need to sit down, and we need to talk about what are the real roadblocks that you're experiencing and what can we do to remove those roadblocks?

It's not about telling you what path you need to take.

That's authoritarian government.

And that's not what we're supposed to have based on our state.

Cause to tution.

What we need to do is learn from you and help you remove those roadblocks.

Thank you, miss McCormack.

This is an area that I'm passionate about.

I was a special education teacher and I know how important these services are.

I've already started meeting with organizations, and I know what our state agencies do in this space, and they need to come together with that local level.

But it's about transition planning for every individual with their families.

It's about figuring out housing.

It's about figuring out transportation and also those basic skills that they need with career coaching.

There's a lot that can be done in this space.

I'm ready day one to prioritize it because it truly is my passion.

And I have to just mention Senator Braun's last comment that I didn't get my chance to to comment on.

You know, he mentioned it for four years.

I was a public servant, and that was it.

And I will say, shame on you.

I was a teacher for 25 years.

And if we're saying that teachers aren't public service, that sends a true message to Hoosiers of who you are.

I was proud of my service, and I will defend every single teacher in the state of Indiana in the United States for the public service that we do for our kids, our family and our communities.

Voters from all Partizan backgrounds submitted questions about how to protect Indiana's natural resources.

Greg, an independent from Terre Haute, asked, how will you protect Indiana's natural spaces, water resources and environment while also supporting Indiana's robust agricultural, manufacturing and supply chain industries?

Mr. rainwater.

Well, first of all, fellow Hoosiers, we need to realize that, government is, attacking our natural resources, our family farmers, and they're doing it because they're prioritizing corporations above what's best for the citizenry.

And so what we need to do is we first of all, need to understand that we have laws in this state that we need to enforce, whether there's a wealthy, corporate donor that wants to build something somewhere or not.

One of the things that we really need to refocus on is what our government is doing and why they're doing it.

Thank you, miss McCormick.

There are a lot of areas in this that need to be addressed, from responsible logging to I've already called for a state water management plan with our local levels to have insight because of a lot of the issues like leap, where we want economic development, but we need clean water, clean air, and we need to protect our soil.

My dad was a soil water conservationist from the USDA, and I grew up knowing how precious those natural resources truly are.

I also know, too, that it's so important to talk about utilities in this space.

So we're moving in a sensible way to renewable energies.

My opponent just was a barrier and came out and told the coal companies that he would not allow them to transition or to shut down and go into more renewable, which is the government getting in the middle of something where we shouldn't be.

So there are a lot of areas that we can do.

We deserve clean air, clean water, clean soil.

And it's called environmental.

Being environmentally aware.

Thank you, Mr. Brown.

That'll be an easy one.

For the last 40 some years lived on a farm.

Have done practices like riparian buffers, grass waterways, cover crops.

The only one here, I think, involved in agriculture just today was acknowledged by the Indiana Farm Bureau for six years of achievement in the U.S. Senate on that very issue.

To understand agriculture, which is one of the most difficult jobs God has ever created.

It's a lot different than it was many years ago.

And the practical experience of being a tree farmer took the produce course on forestry.

Being involved with it is going to give you a much better idea what government's involvement should be with natural resources.

I've lived it.

I practiced it on my own farm and I will take that experience.

I think that would put me in a position to weigh in on that.

With many years of doing it, not saying what you might do.

Thank you.

Mr. Baron.

And Mr. Rainwater and Miss McCormick both asked for opportunities to rebut Mr. rainwater, it's your first friends.

When Senator Braun talks about his experience with farming.

I would encourage you to go down to Dubois and Martin County and ask the family farmers who are having their land taken away in order to build the Mid State's corridor, how they feel about Senator Braun and his support for family farming in the state of Indiana.

Thank you.

Thank you, miss McCormick.

You know, again, I know Senator Brown wants to be dismissive of everybody's background, but I'm a fifth generation farm family and agriculture has been incredibly important to my family for generations.

And so I understand the importance of making sure that we're taking care of our soil and our water and our air as well.

I also want to mention when Senator Senator Braun was well, he is a senator, but when he voted, he always voted against the farmers, whether it was an insurance bill.

And did you ever introduce a bill that would have help farmers?

He was there in DC as an insider for a long time.

Mr. Braun, would you like to be.

Acknowledged in the U.S. Senate by two different groups for getting the most legislation passed on agriculture, health care and education?

Two different groups.

Get your facts straight before you say something like that.

I want to move on for the sake of time.

So we're going to focus on our next issue.

Thank you.

Candidates.

Hoosier voters asked about gun rights and gun regulations.

Wondering how you'll balance support for Second Amendment rights with concerns about gun violence.

What changes, if any, do you support to Indiana's gun laws?

Miss McCormick?

So I'm the only candidate here that has been responsible for an entire school system, or who has watched kindergartners do a drill because of the fear of someone coming into school with a weapon.

And there are a lot of things we can do.

First of all, listen to the state police and we will bring back common sense and balance to the state.

It's about making sure that we're looking at common sense gun violence prevention measures that are widely supported by Republicans and Democrats.

I own a gun.

I am very pro-second amendment.

No one's coming for anybody's guns.

It's about responsible ownership and responsible use.

It's also about making sure that we get the care that is needed when people are vulnerable and may need assistance in area of mental health.

My opponent has called for the red flag laws to go away, or maybe his lieutenant governor opponent and that is dangerous.

Why would we take away something that the state of Indiana has said makes a huge difference in the safety of our communities Mr. Braun.

While correct, you're out of the gate there.

Red flag laws have worked well here.

They need to be actually improved, though, because that is the first step to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill. Our folks that are having trouble with some issue and, resort to a gun.

Keeping guns out of the hands of criminals.

But when it comes to our Second Amendment rights, I'm the one that is defending that with a spotless record.

But that doesn't mean that you shouldn't try hard to make sure with everything you have at your disposal, to make sure criminals do not get guns.

And the mentally ill and the red flag law is designed for that.

And I've been for that ever since we've had it here.

Miss McCormick asked for a rebuttal.

But first, I'm going to go to Mr. Rainwater.

Fellow Hoosiers, first of all, let's establish something that is just commonsense fact.

Criminals don't follow laws.

That's why they're criminals.

So when we say that we need more gun laws to stop criminal activity, that's just not common sense.

If we want to make sure that our children are safe at school, we need to make sure that our schools are as secure as 200 West Washington Street.

The statehouse down here in Indianapolis.

I oppose the red flag laws because we're that close to our government telling us that because we go to this church or remember that organization, that we have a mental defect and therefore they need to take our guns.

That scares me, folks, and it should scare you to.

Miss McCormick 30s for a bottle.

Please.

Yeah, this goes back to the back.

Braun ticket being so extreme, Micah Beckwith is one heartbeat away from that office, and we should all be paying attention.

He has called for the red flag law to go away.

I've had to use the red flag law as a local administrator to save lives in a school.

He also said he wants his guns untraceable and unregistered, and that is just scary.

Mr. Braun, since your name was mentioned, you could have 15 seconds.

Well, she constantly defaults to something other than what we're talking about.

Who's going to be leading the state and my record on all these issues are clear.

I've been at it for six years in the Senate, was a legislator three years.

You can look it up.

Everyone else is saying what they might do.

And when it comes to that, my records clear theirs would be either nonexistent or murky.

Many voters submitted questions about Indiana's abortion laws.

Could you please share with us your position on Indiana's current abortion law?

Does it go too far, not far enough, or just far enough in restricting access to abortion?

Mr. Brown?

So I think when our legislature took on that task a couple years ago, they vetted it with the people of this state.

And when you believe in the sanctity of life, I think it was reflected in a way that put a bill out there that was vetted carefully, with reasonable exceptions, that reflects the general tenor of our state.

You got to remember, it was done with a lot of time put into it.

talking to their own constituents.

And it passed with a large majority.

So I think if you don't believe that our people are talking to their legislators and coming up with a good product, I think they did that.

And it's a place where it's settled.

The courts have vetted it and, it's, should have gone back to the States a long time ago.

Mr. rainwater.

Fellow Hoosiers, this is an issue that in no uncertain terms, you need to make your voice known.

I trust the citizens of the state of Indiana to reach out to their legislators and let them know what they believe needs to be changed, if anything, in this law.

This is something where we need to hear your voice, not you need to hear ours.

Thank you, miss McCormack.

I just want to bring attention to something, that was said just now.

Our extreme abortion ban was called a good product by Senator Braun.

Women are dying.

A lot of women's health are put at risk.

And he called it a good product.

It is also not been vetted.

We don't have a citizens initiative ballot, which I will fight for because Hoosiers deserve to have a voice.

I'm the only person on this stage who's been pregnant, who's given birth, and know firsthand the complexities with pregnancy.

I was very fortunate.

I have an amazing son.

I didn't have complications, but I have friends and family who have.

And when you're in that situation, you have got to have options.

There are men and women who are with me on this.

Hoosiers have spoken over 60% of Indiana.

Once those standards return to Ro.

My opponent has said they didn't go far enough.

Beckwith is saying take away the exception for rape and incest.

And Mr. Braun is now saying it's a good product.

That should tell you everything we need to know about who would serve as a good governor.

Curt from Logansport.

Tyler from Yorktown.

Ed from fishers.

And Adam and Deborah from Indianapolis.

Come from different cities, professions, political parties, ancient groups.

But all had the same basic question.

Do you support the legalization of cannabis in Indiana?

If so, under what circumstances and why?

Mr. rainwater.

Fellow Hoosiers I am the only candidate in this debate who believes that we currently have the government structure by having regulated tobacco, alcohol and prescription drugs that we can and should legalize all forms of cannabis immediately.

We don't need bigger government.

We don't need any new commissions.

What we need to do is recognize that your inalienable right to choose what you put in your body is not up for discussion by the government.

It doesn't matter what the federal government says.

It doesn't matter what the state government says.

This is something that is a constitutional right that's being ignored, and we need to fix that.

Mr. McCormack.

I'm the only candidate that has put out a plan.

We put out a common sense, a cannabis legalization plan that was very, very, again, well-received because over 80% of Hoosiers are ready for this.

We are an island on our own, but we have to do it right.

We have to be realistic on how to get this passed, and then how to make sure we do it successfully by learning from other states who did it well and other states who did not do it well.

We're looking at a commission going into medical use and then eventually going into adult use.

There are 100.

There's $177 million potentially on the line right out of the gate.

And we deserve that revenue to come in.

For those local services that we need so dearly.

Also, it's hundreds if not thousands of jobs that are on the line.

It's time.

I've talked to a lot of people, a lot of experts in this area and a lot of Hoosiers, and it's time to do this.

So day one, we will get started with our commission.

Mr.. Brian, so when it comes to what's happening with cannabis, it's clear it's cascading across the country, and medical use of it is probably going to be in every state sooner or later.

I can tell you, though, I'm going to be talking to law enforcement.

I'm the only one here on this stage.

It's been endorsed by the fraternal Order of Police and the Indiana State Police Alliance, and they will have to put up with the brunt of whatever we do.

And when it comes to what happens down the road, obviously the federal government is allowing states to craft what makes sense in their own states, and it is moving across the country medical marijuana.

I think it's time for that to probably take place.

I'll listen to the legislature.

I'll listen to law enforcement, and we'll come up with something that's going to make sense for Hoosiers.

And what happens beyond that?

I think we will evolve in that into a way that makes sense.

Start with medical.

Find out what happens down the road.

Mr. rainwater, you have 30s for a bottle, sir.

Fellow Hoosiers, I just want to point out that, obviously here, Mr. Braun says he'll listen to law enforcement now.

My grandfather was a police officer, so I know what it means to, value law enforcement.

he says he'll listen to the General Assembly.

I didn't hear him say he listened to you.

And that's a problem.

And that's a problem with just about everything we have going on in government today in the state of Indiana.

They're not listening to you.

Miss McCormick, you'd like 30s for a bottle?

Yeah.

I think it's so interesting.

After 20 years of one party rule, we still have people in the Republican Party who will say they'll listen to local law enforcement.

We didn't listen to him about permit laws, Kerry.

We're not listening to them about protecting red flag laws.

There are times where we're picking and choosing when we talk to local law enforcement.

They are our law enforcement.

We need to respect them and listen to them in all circumstances.

Several Hoosiers had questions about the state budget and how to keep it balanced.

Amanda, a political independent and state employee from Indianapolis, would like to know if you plan to downsize state agencies, eliminate state jobs, or cut state employee salaries.

If so, she asks, which agencies do you plan to target?

She offered examples of environmental management and the health department.

Mrs. McCormick.

Well, first, that would be very responsible for me to answer that right now.

But believe me, day one, we're looking even at as soon as we are elected the day after election, we are looking at all the agencies.

We're looking at that budget to see where we can cut.

And if it cuts can be made, we certainly will look at that.

What is alarming with this is I know from being at the state House for four years, we have amazing people who work for the state of Indiana across the state, and they have really good jobs.

And I certainly don't want to cut their salaries because many of them are underpaid.

But just last week, my opponent's ticket came out and said he would fire state employees because they're liberal and they would start with the ones that have a pronoun in their in their signature, which is highly illegal.

That's the type of leadership that is extreme that we are up against.

Hoosiers deserve better than that.

Our state employees deserve to be represented and respected, and not have threats of someone coming in to fire them because of what they think they believe, or what they think they were told.

It's just irresponsible.

And I know Mr. Brown at one point said he believes everything Micah believes answers.

Mr. Brown.

Well, this will probably be the task that will yield the most benefits for Hoosiers.

It's a $22 billion budget.

K through 12 is half of that.

Post-secondary is another 15%.

But you're only going to know how to pare down an agency or add to it, depending on the need.

If you've had the experience of actually doing it in your own past experience building a business Main Street into a, regional business, then a national business, you've got to make those decisions all the time.

And when it comes to what you'd gain by just 5% saving, that you can invest in a lot of other things or send money back to the taxpayer.

That is $1 billion.

And regardless of who's been running it, that can be pared down.

You can run it more efficiently and get better results.

Not spending more money like some parties want to do, regardless of the issue.

Make it work well with the resources you've got.

Miss McCormick, I'll give you 30s.

After Mr. Rainwater Waters had the opportunity to speak.

So here's what's not being said tonight.

In 2020, Governor Holcomb sent out a memo to all the state agencies saying, hey, because of the pandemic, shut down, we don't know how much revenue we're going to get from taxpayers.

So I need you to cut all of your spending by 10 to 15%, not five, 10 to 15%.

They did that.

Nobody got fired.

There were no essential services cut.

They got rid of the corporate crony capitalism and all of the fraud, waste and abuse that goes on every year in our state government.

They cut 10 to 15% and they ended up with a $6 billion surplus.

We can do it.

It doesn't take one guy who's had a business for 37 years.

There's an entire state bureaucracy that knows what's going on.

They just need to be held accountable.

Thank you.

Miss McCormick 30s.

Yeah.

I'm not sure which party up here is wanting to spend more money.

I don't know if Mr. Brown's referring to the Libertarian Party, but I certainly don't know the Democrats I've talked to.

I have to just say that when I was in state office, I was responsible for over half of the state budget, which is the K 12 budget.

And what we did is prioritize.

And when you budget based on priorities, which for me will be health care, education and a strong economy, getting that money where it needs to go.

We will find success as a state.

Mr. Brown, you have 30s for rebuttal.

Well, that's.

Interesting.

When, her party has been the party that's been borrowing and spending and grown the federal government into a place it's never been before.

And I think you're on record for supporting Biden.

Nomics.

You're on record for supporting all the policies of Biden and Harris.

That's what gave us inflation.

And that is government spending gone out of control.

Mr. rainwater, you asked for three seconds for a bottle.

I just think, to be fair, fellow Hoosiers that we should point out that it's, Senator Braun's Republican Party that has a super majority in our state government that has grown state government spending by over $6 billion since 2019.

And when you add the money that they hold out their hand to the federal government and say, give us more.

That adds another 10 billion to what they've been spending.

So I think both parties are guilty of, take, take, take, spend spend spend.

Since every candidate had the opportunity to rebut on that one, I'm going to move forward.

And I'm going to ask that we limit our answers for this question and the next question to 30s, please.

Over 200 Hoosier voters from Dyer, Griffith, Valparaiso, Gerardo La Porte, East Chicago and winner Mack submitted questions on the same two topics Right to work and prevailing wage legislation.

And Indiana.

All want to know whether you'll support or repeal right to work legislation that allows employees and unionized workplaces to opt out of paying union dues.

And whether you support or oppose prevailing wage laws that require contractors to pay workers at least the prevailing wage and benefits for similar projects in the area.

Mr. Bron 30s, please.

So that topic comes up often.

giving union support for my run for governor means that you got to be sensitive to what they're interested in.

And unions always have a place, especially up against large corporations.

And when it comes to prevailing wage, our right to work, I don't think that is the issue.

The issue is making sure that they are heard, that you recognize the value of them, and making sure that it doesn't get into overdrive.

Mr..

In water 30s, please friends.

Voluntary association is very important in a free society.

I believe very strongly in unions.

My father was a member of the UAW for 41 years.

Yesterday would have been his 86th birthday.

But I want you to understand that we don't need government setting the rules for voluntary transactions between private citizens, whether that be an employer and an employee or any other.

Thank you, miss McCormick.

Our common sense economic development plan plan.

Address this with making sure we're being business friendly, but also paid attention to human capital.

And I am proud to have the support of those men and women who pack their lunch every day, and they go to work to make sure they can make ends meet and get ahead.

And I will continue to do that.

There are a lot of things that we need to review and a lot of discussions we need to have, but I am proud of those who are middle class, hardworking individuals, and I don't want them to have barriers ahead of them.

Many Hoosier voters had questions about our polarized political landscape.

Jamie, a child development director from Lafayette, says in their local communities, Hoosiers work side by side, play sports, volunteer and generally treat each other in an enduring form of neighborly kindness, regardless of political views.

She wants to know if you'll follow this example by listening to and serving all Hoosiers, including those who may not have voted for you.

And we'll have 45 seconds each for this question.

Mr. rainwater, you can go first.

So, friends, I'm an everyday average Hoosier.

I'm just like you.

I work a job.

I work with people every day.

And, you know, the reality is, is when I turn on the TV, when I see the stuff going on, they're dividing us to distract us from what they're doing to us.

As a government, we need to wake up as citizens and realize that we are not the enemy.

The government that is trying to create dependency and trying to make sure that we stay in line, that's the enemy, and we can fix that.

Miss McCormack.

I know Senator Brown has spent a lot of time in DC, and his conversations sometimes go there.

But I will tell you, he spent an awful lot of time where we were here at home, and we were showing Hoosiers that there was a new way, and that new way was common sense, civility and bringing back balance.

We showed them we can work together with Republicans, independents and, Republicans, Democrats and independents and libertarians in order to get things done.

And that's been well-received.

That's why we have such a swell of support across the across the political aisle from Hoosiers.

They're tired of it.

They're frustrated.

They do not want extremism.

That's why they're like the Beckwith brand ticket's not for me.

We're going for common sense and balance.

Mr.

Brand.

Again, look at records when you are passing more legislation in the areas I talked about earlier than any Republican in the most of any freshman senator, you're getting along with the other side of the aisle because you're picking something practical that doesn't invite the divisiveness that is out there.

It is here.

And when when you look at what we can do in our own state, imagine how you're going to get along with a legislature that isn't going to believe in any of the policies you're espousing.

So the only way we're going to take it to a level that we haven't seen before.

On reforming health care, which I did in my own business, is will have to be entrepreneurial, balance the budget and get things done.

Just like I've got a proven track record of doing.

She does not.

Thank you, miss McCormick.

You have 30s for a bottle.

Yeah.

There is no question that Michael Beckwith is the definition of divisiveness.

No question.

He's one heartbeat away and he will have power in the state is number two.

And that is too extreme and goes too far for Hoosiers.

And he knows it.

Senator Brown knows it because he knows his values are aligned to the values of a lot of Hoosiers who also care about each other.

And Micah Beckwith is the definition of divisiveness, and we cannot have that in the state of Indiana.

Mr.. Water 30s for a bottle, please.

Friends, I just want to point out something very important.

Senator Braun has made it very clear here tonight that he is the ultimate insider with lots of government experience and he's done a lot of things in government.

And he's right in there with government, which means all the things that you're frustrated with, the federal government or the state government.

He's right in the thick of it.

And if you want change, he's not going to change anything.

Now it's time for our final question this evening.

For this final question, each candidate has 30s to respond.

The question is this why should voters cast their ballots for you to become the next governor of the state of Indiana?

Mr. Bryan, you'll go first in answering this question.

Your closing.

Statement.

Is.

Very clear.

If you want strong leadership with a proven track record, a main Street entrepreneur that built his life and career, building a little business, having three of your kids work for it, and a lifetime of knowing what it takes to get along.

Building a business and getting things done in a limited time in government.

I've got the record.

Neither one here has it.

And that's why with freedom and opportunity, we will take this state to a place that's never seen before.

Thank you, miss McCormick.

You have 30s.

Yeah.

First of all, I like to thank the commission, the moderator, the signer as well.

And to my fellow colleagues who are on the stage, Hoosiers, the choice is clear.

It is either fear, extremism and chaos.

Coming from a gentleman who tells us he developed his own company but acquired it from family or it's about common sense and balance.

It's about someone who will fight for your freedoms, reproductive freedoms, academic freedoms, someone who will build our economy strong and who will represent us well on the national stage and not be an embarrassment.

Mr. rainwater, you also have 30s to state your case.

I'm just an everyday average Hoosier.

I've struggled in the past with financial issues, career issues, family issues, just as many of you have.

I've fought hard to overcome those issues and to fight to rebuild my life in a way that I'm very proud of.

What I've been able to accomplish without the government constantly lording over me.

And if you want somebody that can.

Thank you, Mr. Rainwater.

Candidates, on behalf of the Indiana Debate Commission, thank you for participating in tonight's debate.

The commission is a nonprofit organization that depends on volunteers and media outlets across the state.

To make events like this possible.

The commission also wants to thank our sponsors, the Indiana Broadcasters Association, the Indiana State Bar Association, and the Indiana Coalition for Open Government.

Finally, thanks to all of you in our audience of voters for submitting questions and for watching and listening.

Now it's your turn to make your choice and cast your vote in this year's election for the Indiana Debate Commission.

I'm doctor Laura merrifield Wilson.

Good night.