Is Indiana ready for a Medicaid work requirement rollout?

The misuse of Flock cameras exposed and an investigation uncovers healthcare oversight failures from the television studios of WFYI Public Media.

Its Indiana Week in Review for the week ending September 25th, 2026.

Indiana Week in Review is produced by WFYI in association with Indiana Public Broadcasting stations.

Additional support is provided.

By ParrRichey.

Is Indiana prepared for a rollout of Medicaid work requirements?

Providers gathered in Indianapolis this week for an information session about eligible requirements that, for some, will take effect in October.

Ben Thorp has more.

Family and Social Services Administration Secretary Mitch Roob has told providers they need to help get the word out about upcoming changes to Medicaid eligibility.

But state officials acknowledge there are still many questions.

For instance, Sunshine Beam what the FSSA says the state is still working through its definition of medical frailty.

Indiana's definition will be more complicated than the federal rule because of legislation passed this year.

We'll have them and we'll get it all out to everyone.

But I think it's important to note, especially when you're reading like, national news stories.

Indiana's a little bit different.

Roughly 500,000 fewer people are covered by Indiana's Medicaid program since the start of 2025.

Advocates say another 500,000 could be lost due to the work requirements.

So will this move result in thousands of Hoosiers losing insurance?

It's the first question for our Indiana Week in Review panel.

Democrat Terri Austin, Republican Mike O'Brien.

Jon Schwantes host of Indiana Lawmakers and Niki Kelly, editor in chief at Indiana Capital Chronicle.

I'm Jill Sheridan, managing editor at WFYI.

So, Terri, do you think there could be serious implications once this rollout comes to be in Indiana?

Well, let's look at the track record for FSSA.

Indiana currently leads the nation in the number of children who've lost Chip and Medicaid coverage 20% full, 20% just shy of 200,000 kids.

And a lot of that is because of the re enrollment, the certification procedures, confusing applications.

I don't I'm not counting on the fact that this is going to go smoothly and it's going to hurt Hoosiers.

I mean, it's going to hurt our most vulnerable Hoosiers.

You know, when we were hearing from the Secretary Roob about the rollout, he was pointing to providers like, you need to be doing more to get the word out.

But it's clear now, as well, after these meetings that there are still unanswered questions about how this is going to work.

Yeah, I mean, they're trying to put the people that have the most to lose other than the patients losing their insurance.

in the position just to walk them through that process, which, you know, you put it up on a provider's plate and now you put one more thing and I get it.

They do have an incentive to try to walk people through this, or at least flag it for them that this requirement is coming on line.

We've had fits and starts to trying to put this program in place for years.

It's either been blocked by courts or we've we've dialed it back or we've pushed the, you know, the implementation deadline.

and now it's phased in.

So we'll see.

I mean, what's ultimately the people that are pushing this the most aren't really the they're trying to change the culture of what it means to be on Medicaid.

Do you do you have skin in the game?

It's what we see is what we talked about in the HIP program, in the power account.

And, you know, you got theoretically you had you had money in the mix here.

You were you were also contributing or paying a premium.

You were using your, your, you know, you're kind of model HSA.

So, you know, we the attempt now for years has been to try to change the culture of the people that are in these programs to ultimately get out of these programs.

So if we if we're pushing towards the work force, does that ultimately put some people in a position where they they, they grow out of it, you know, and they don't need anymore?

That's the ideal goal.

It's lofty and it hasn't worked.

this is I don't know how many tries for up to, but I, I'm, I think most people are up for the effort.

You know.

And what, it's what it's trying to achieve because I know where that we're, you know, the federal level.

We just, you know, 150,000 people were just kicked off of marketplace.

you know, we've gone into this enhanced eligibility system so we can make sure that like, you know, the people who should be on our on or check in more frequently, we're pushing certain populations into, you know, trying to push them into the workforce or at least an attempt into the workforce.

I think most people would agree with those with those efforts.

It's clunky, though.

In the Medicaid program.

We can't run that program.

Well at its basic level, much less, you know, adding all these complexities on top and then making the barriers come in.

And so, you know, but, you know, I think most people do agree with like the direction it's trying to go.

I think you mentioned skin in the game.

And I remember then Governor Pence saying that and this has been a long fight in the state, you know, whether or not to impose these work requirements on people that are on Medicaid.

And we do hear from many advocates that many of these people are certainly already working and already trying to make everything come together.

Already working, and perhaps, simply don't have the documentation they need to, submit to maintain their eligibility.

Or maybe they've moved and the paperwork hasn't followed them.

Or maybe they simply are getting document A, when in fact they need document B. So there are a lot of people, I think, who will fall into that middle ground, who who meet the requirement on in a practical sense, but not in a formal or paper driven sense.

You look at studies, though, that show the notion of these kinds of requirements, and I I've yet to see a study that says that there's a direct link between these kinds of requirements and a and a spike in workforce.

It's a lot of these people are in this situation because of underlying mental health issues, physical limitations and I know there are exceptions and waivers meant to cover a lot of these scenarios.

But again, people will fall through the cracks.

Last thing I would say is you look at when Mike Pence was sort of the the, The Godfather, the grandfather of HIP HIP and the expansion.

And it was yes, it was about skin in the game, but it was also about prevention.

When you have these savings accounts and rather than waiting till you get sick, we're going to keep you healthy, under the HIP program.

The problem here is, the prevention sort of goes out the window.

It's not as if the Hoosier population with a snap of a fingers is automatically healthy.

MAHA and Robert Kennedy junior, notwithstanding, they're going to need help at some point if something if they get sick, if something bad happens to them, and the care will be rendered under current law, somebody will have to pay for it.

Hospitals with the indigent care and so forth will have to pay for it.

They're already say they're stretched.

They're already no hospitals in more than half the counties in Indiana.

So by limiting the program overall, it seems that you're limiting prevention, which undercuts what Mike Pence and the and the founders of this program, I think, envisioned way back when.

I mean, is that a real concern?

Obviously, we have heard that, you know, a number of times that, you know, this is just going to increase cost as more people head to the E.R., as you know, they're seeking, care elsewhere.

Yeah, I do want to give credit.

It was actually Mitch Daniels who originally started this program, not Mike Pence.

Mike Pence expanded it.

but it was Mitch Daniels idea to have the power accounts and the, you know, the credits name and all that.

Mike Pence was tip 2.0.

Correct.

So that guess 1.0 belongs to Mitch.

Yeah.

So I but I just want to say one thing like I think FSSA is doing a pretty good job.

They're having lots of town halls.

They're texting their mailing all this stuff.

But whenever you got to remember this is hundreds of thousands of people, hundreds of thousands, millions probably of paperwork.

Stuff is going to get lost.

And, you know, people get kicked off and then they immediately get put back on.

But the main issue is there's a definition called medical frailty.

And it's for people who have chronic conditions, you know, maybe they have a bad month and they can't work that month, but then they get back, right?

You you get better.

We still don't have a definition for medical frailty guys.

And it's going into effect.

So that is a big problem.

Yeah.

And she mentioned that sunshine beam this week that you know they don't have everything ironed out.

And this is happening.

And we also heard from Secretary Roob that said, you know, health insurance is not a right.

And that's clearly in line with, the way the state is moving right now.

Well, and I think they've been trying to move that way for a long time.

Now it's time for viewer feedback.

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Flock cameras are mobile cameras that take photos of license plates and add them to a database that law enforcement can search.

They're also highly controversial because of privacy concerns.

Zak Cassel reports five Indianapolis police officers this week were charged for misusing the cameras.

IMPD officers accessed the cameras primarily to track ex-partners and other individuals they know, according to charging documents.

Police Chief Tanya Terry says the department learned of the misuse after an officer self-reported in August and the department conducted an audit.

It is the misuse that we have to focus on and do everything in our power to prevent that from happening in the future, and that's why we've taken significant action since we discovered this misuse.

The department now requires officers to use case numbers or details when they search for images in the database.

They also must sign a policy about how to use the database or they will lose access.

IMPD has 301 cameras in use.

Terry says the department doesn' So, Mike, this is a significant number of officers that were now charged.

Should departments have seen this coming?

Yeah, but it blew up so fast.

I mean, the proliferation of these cameras, I mean, people are just becoming aware of like millions of cameras in America.

They to track you from Maine to California and everywhere in between.

you know, and that.

So that's new without any without the government or legislatures really weighing in on any of that.

and so, yeah, I guess they should have seen it coming, but it's also a great it's arguably a great tool for them.

I actually had a personal experience with a flat camera yesterday.

I was in French Lick.

We were going to go to Jasper to the Schnitzelbank.

And so we chartered a little bus to bring us there.

We the second we pull in the Jasper, a cop comes from about a mile behind us with his lights on and pulls us over.

The plate was from a stolen truck on this bus and I was like, there is no way some cops sit at the in a parking lot just firing off, you know, plate numbers and figure out what's stolen, what's not.

And so we asked them, what's this got?

Once the driver got put in jail and the police officers drove us to the Schnitzelbank.

Thank you.

And thanks for the ride.

Hey.

Good.

I go, was that a flock camera?

He goes, oh, yeah, that's a flock camera.

So these things are I mean, keep your registration up to date because they're going to they're going to get you.

Wow.

Like quick.

It was so I worked on it.

What's interesting about this?

I worked on camera issues in the legislature for a long time on behalf of like, especially road builders who have been trying to get work zone cameras in, in dangerous work zones.

We after five years, we got two.

We got one at I-69.

And that interchange up on the northeast side.

That's really dangerous.

Open.

And there's constant pattern changes and everything.

So we got one there and there's one on the east 70. it's like it's five years to get that.

We couldn't even get school bus stop arm cameras that would take a picture when somebody would blow past a school bus with the stop arm out when the kids were crossing the street.

So the legislature has been like, very reluctant to open this door.

They thought it had to be a huge expansion, and they kind of missed the whole thing.

You know, I mean, like.

Yeah, I mean, you they really did miss the whole thing.

Yeah.

Look, we did a story three years ago on license plate readers, not Flock like they are a specific company that has proliferated.

But license plate readers are not new.

Yes.

And have been around for years now.

And, you know, people were saying we need statewide regulations.

We need things like rules and audits of how often the cops use them.

Right.

And the legislature didn't do it.

And they're going to have to come in.

They're either going to have to ban them all together or put some guardrails because clearly.

Ban and I think we have thousands of them here right now.

And what someone's going to try obviously, I think the police will manage to get them stay safe, but with actual guidelines.

That should have been there years ago.

Yeah, I mean, this has been years in the making, but there's 300 in Indianapolis alone.

I don't think there's any going back either.

Do you think lawmakers will seriously have to look at this this year?

This year?

I think they'll have to look at it.

But let me speak in favor of them.

they are a tremendous tool for law enforcement, homicides, missing children, endangered adults.

And in this case, with the Indianapolis, it's helping to root out abusive law enforcement officers or folks who crossed the line so that you can either have consequences or get them out of the force.

And so it's kind of serving a dual purpose of working not only to help keep the public safe, but also to police the only their own law enforcement teams.

And if there is no going back, Jon, I mean, there are still, you know, many concerns from many people, privacy concerns.

I think there may be some going back.

I'll be the contrarian here.

I think the mood in our country right now and this is, changing by the hour, it seems we are growing increasingly alarmed about technology, whether it's AI, whether it's manifested as data centers, whether it's manifested as big brother surveillance, telling us we or should be doing this or that, we are doing that whether or not we are, and I think we've already seen the pushback become organized.

Now, we saw it in Fort Wayne and a number of other jurisdictions, now, locally, they've said they want their 300 cameras to stay and if they do, I think it will be with dramatically different, criteria surrounding their use.

But I think, if ever there were a sort of a perfect storm, I mean, this is the wrong time to be an advocate, it seems to me, for Flock cameras, because we're we're just going to conflate data centers, AI threat to job threat to civil liberties and whether whether that's deserved or not.

Yeah.

So, I think there will be more pushback than than we're anticipating.

Perhaps here.

It was interesting.

I do want to shout out real quick to former Jasper Mayor Terry Seitz, who grabbed two sons in law and gave us all a ride home when we were stranded.

Jasper, I know what we know, right?

I would do that for.

Any any random person coming through town.

Wow.

That is that is pretty cool.

NeuroPsychiatric Hospitals is a for profit pchiatric hospital chain based in Indiana.

The hospital says a change in leadership fix reported problems, but a WFYI investigation found the hospital still faces a trail of complaints, lawsuits and inspection findings.

Farrah Anderson reports.

Over two weeks after leaving a facility run by NeuroPsychiatric Hospitals, Amy Pawlus mom was dead.

Pawlus sued the company and settled this year.

She hoped her suit would bring change to how the hospital operates.

I'm scared to death that there are people behind those closed doors right now who are not treated well, and who will likely die when we can do something about it.

NeuroPsychiatric Hospitals says the care Pawlus' mother received was from a quote, materially different organization than exists today, unquote, pointing to a leadership overhaul in 2022 as a turning point.

A WFYI investigation found that some of the chain's most serious alleged failures came after 2022, including allegations of a patient death and abuse, NPH told WFYI it has helped thousands of patients stabilize their lives.

So, Niki, when you read this investigation, a big chunk of it is really about the fragmented oversight and kind of the failure of the oversight, to, to fix this problem.

Yeah, I mean, it seems like we have one agency that does the inspections, but they don't actually have any authority to find them or close them or anything like that.

And then you have well, you can send the complaints on to the attorney general.

They may or may not actually go through the licensing.

and it appeared FSSA did try a couple of years ago to close one of these facilities due to concerns, but ultimately settled and I you know, and so, you know, I don't know, maybe we need some fining authority somewhere in there.

There's got to be some something between closure, which would obviously impact a lot of people, and we might not have beds or places for all of them to go.

And, you know, nothing, nothing seems to have happened now.

I mean, I think, you know, also we we, heard that, you know, the collaboration, the sharing of information was, was, is a major, failure of of this issue in Indiana and also that there just simply isn't a lot of incentive for these hospitals to change.

Well, there are for profit.

The incentive is to, return, profit on the investors for, you know, money that has been put into this.

So you start right there, wondering, you know, what's in the best interest of patients.

And this is not isolated to this hospital group, but there have been other mental health facilities, privately run New York Times and others have found problems, going back decade or more, where people will almost be trapped in some of these scenarios, because the the checks are still clearing, essentially, and the aid is still paying for them.

And and then there you have these concerns about the quality of care or, the protection of individuals from sexual assault by not only employees, but other patients, etc., etc.. It's a lot of long list of of scenarios that can cause headaches and concern.

so I you ask about, you know, the notion of incentives.

It seems to me, the incentive now should be on the part of the state to correct some of this, disjointed oversight where you do have different people with different responsibilities and you do have that potential for information, vital information to fall into the proverbial cracks.

So, and efforts have been made to, to more to streamline, oversight in the past, but I believe they've obviously never gone anywhere.

so perhaps we'll see a renewed effort in that regard because we've seen it with national security.

We've seen it on any number of fronts.

When agencies are siloed and they don't talk, bad things can happen.

I mean, this something that lawmakers should be looking at more seriously and trying to, you know, close these gaps.

I'm sure they will.

Yeah, I'm there's always a reaction to to situations that become public like this.

There's always a push and pull on, like you've got the for profit that has an incentive to make a profit, versus the non profit that's mission driven.

But could be more it could be less efficient.

and there's got to be a balance.

There's got to be a balance between those two models.

with, with appropriate oversight in a really complicated population.

You know certainly there's abuse, but looking at any time, I mean, mental health has been such a focus of the government.

Yes.

At the federal level, the state level, whenever that happens, what the government hears is we got to spend a lot more money on mental health.

What private equity.

Here's what nonprofits here.

Oh, my God, the governor's about to spend a lot more money on mental health.

Those markets are flooded with providers that the vetting of which is not always great.

and the oversight of which is not as efficient as it needs to be when you experience that much change that quickly.

So, yes, it's not it's I got no good answers for you because we don't we not we have so far not getting it right.

Just well so, you know, we heard from the hospital that, you know, this is just because of the complicated issue at hand.

You know, the, complex mental medical needs and psychiatric needs that, that are so difficult, to provide sometimes.

Well, and mental health is a complicated issue, and it's often accompanied by physiological challenges as well.

But at the same time, if you're going to be accepting patients who are, you know, and, and their families are trusting that they're going to get the best care, it's got to be you've got to have some quality systems in place.

We just haven't figured out the right set of guardrails and regulations to hold people accountable yet.

And this was, Farrah's last investigation, and she spent a long time working on this.

And we will miss her.

Well, this week, Governor Mike Braun and a number of state officials were at Bloomfield Middle and High School to launch the Cybersecurity Pathway in Action program.

As Pat Beane reports, it's the first of its kind in the country.

The program will use cybersecurity coursework to connect students in the state to colleges, military service and careers.

Indiana is the first state to build a, quote, strategic, military aligned cybersecurity pathway for students.

Braun says it's an economic opportunity for students looking to get into cybersecurity.

And the work where we get this done in high school is going to be so valuable, because you could write your ticket if you're good at it, if you choose to get into it.

The Bloomfield School District superintendent acknowledged that when you think of cybersecurity, his school in rural Greene County may not be the first place you think of.

Over the next three years, the state hopes to expand cybersecurity education to 200 high schools serving approximately 4000 students.

So, Jon, do you think this is a solid field to prep Indiana students to go into?

Well, certainly, it seems to be an area that's growing.

schools are about getting people prepared for gainful employment to a certain extent.

so that makes sense.

I would hope that because of just how fraught this whole field is, there is some instruction about constitutional protections.

And I know I'm being silly here.

The morality.

And now I just got into a really sticky wicket here in terms of of using these types of surveillance tools.

And I'll refer you to a question we just discussed here a ten minutes ago.

these aren't always, black and white issues.

The other thing I would say, I hope flippantly, is that if the if the people who are sounding alarm bells about AI are right, the the high schoolers, certainly the middle schoolers are going to be too late to the game because we'll all be extinct by then.

So, maybe they could be on an expedited fast track to those internships and to employment.

Well, let's hope it's not.

You know, I'm an optimist, so I think we have more than five years, maybe six.

The Indiana National Guard also out for this announcement this week.

I mean, there's there are some questions, though, about whether or not the high school students would even be interested in this type of field.

I don't know, I mean, I know another number of young people who are interested in programing.

I mean, it's that, you know, programing, you're going to make a lot of money.

And it's not only about surveillance, it's about protecting.

I mean, cybersecurity to me is more about protecting the data from incursions so that we do keep our privacy and things like that.

So, you know, I think it's a worthwhile, worthwhile program.

I mean, first, in the nation, do you think, you know, there's a real need for this?

Of course there's real need for it, especially I really keep picking, you know, endless wars in the Middle East.

but but this also comes out of the pathways concept that they passed, that the legislature passed and the House Republicans led a couple years ago to establish exactly this.

So you know, students that are out of track to go into a very specific career and, and come out of high school already with their legs under.

as a former educator, do you think students will be interested?

I think they will be.

I would advise whoever is leading this program to reach out to both Purdue Anderson University.

They both have excellent cybersecurity programs, and to see what they have learned, because they've been in place for several years.

And it's a good lesson, too.

They need to accommodate some of those pitfalls and things and plan for them when you're talking about high schoolers.

Well, also this week, the beginning of fall, we got a little taste of it.

What's your favorite fall activity.

Oh gosh.

Watching college.

Football.

Jon.

Isn't the tie.

I get enough of a giveaway though.

I was listening to red cream and crimson red light to this.

If you want to be.

What do you like to respond to.

By the way?

Yeah.

I have to say Connor Prairie and the Headless Horseman, of course.

And what came to mind might.

Be a crisp night at Memorial Stadium tonight, so that's.

If I'll be there.

All right.

I'll give you a weather report again.

Lots.

And again.

A week in review for this week.

Our panel has been Democrat Terri Austin, Republican Mike O'Brien, Jon Schwantes, host of Indiana Lawmakers.

And Niki Kelly, editor in chief at Indiana Capital Chronicle.

You can find Indiana Week in Reviews podcast and episodes at wfyi.org/iwir or on the PBS app.

I'm Jill Sheridan, managing editor at WFYI.

Join us next time because a lot can happen in an Indiana week.

The views expressed are solely those of the panelists.

Indiana Week in Review is produced by WFYI in association with Indiana Public Broadcasting stations.

Additional support is provided by ParrRichey.