March 13, 2023

>>> HELLO EVERYONE AND WELCOME TO AMANPOUR AND COMPANY.

HERE IS WITH COMING UP.

IRAN CLAIMS A DEAL IS ON THE TABLE TO FREE JAILED AMERICAN CITIZENS BUT THE U.S. CALLS IT A LIE AFTER AN EXTRAORDINARY INTERVIEW INSIDE AND IMPRISONED IN I NOW SPEAK TO --WHO HAS A FATHER WHO WAS ALSO THERE.

AND TO FORMER AMBASSADOR BILL RICHARDSON WHO LAWS LOBBIES FOR PEOPLE IN PRISON AND IN AMERICA AND ABROAD.

THE BBC SCRAMBLES TO SAVE HER FACE IN A ROW OVER IMPARTIALITY BUT WAS THE SPORTS COMMENTATOR WRONG ABOUT THE ISSUE OF BRITAIN'S REFUGEE POLICY?

MY CONVERSATION WITH MIGRATION EXPERT ALEXANDER BETZ.

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>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM EVERYONE I'M CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR AMANPOUR.

OVER THE WEEKEND IRAN'S FOREIGN MINISTER SAID A PRISONER SWAP AGREEMENT BETWEEN HIS COUNTRY AND THE UNITED STATES HAS -- AND NOW THE BALL IS IN THEIR COURT.

THE STATE DEPARTMENT TOLD CNN IT'S QUOTE A CRUEL LIE THAT ONLY ADDS TO THE SUFFERING OF THIS FOLLOWS THE HEARTBREAKING APPEAL MADE BY THE IRANIAN AMERICAN AND WHEN I SPOKE TO HIM INSIDE PRISON LAST WEEK.

HE SPENT 7 1/2 YEARS THERE REPEATEDLY LEFT BEHIND IN OTHER PRISONER SWAP DEALS BETWEEN THE TWO COUNTRIES.

TWO OTHER AMERICANS ARE ALSO IMPRISONED ALONGSIDE HIM.

THEY CALL THEMSELVES HOSTAGES AND THAT THEY ARE PAWNS CAUGHT UP IN THE DECADES LONG STANDOFF BETWEEN TEHRAN AND WASHINGTON.

JUST AHEAD WE WILL HEAR FROM ONE OF THEIR DAUGHTERS BUT FIRST I NEXT GUEST HAS MADE IT HIS MISSION TO TRY TO HELP.

BILL RICHARDSON HAS BEEN AN AMERICAN CABINET SECRETARY AND AMBASSADOR TO THE U.N. AS WELL AS THE FORMER GOVERNOR OF NEW MEXICO.

A LONG TIME --WITH REGIMES LIKE RUSSIA, NORTH KOREA AND MORE TO SECURE THE RELEASE OF AMERICAN CAPTIVES.

>> IT'S A LONG TIME SINCE WE HAVE SPOKEN AND I WANT TO GET YOUR OPINION BASED ON YOUR EXPERIENCE.

THESE DUELING NARRATIVES AND CLAIMS NOW ABOUT ANY KIND OF A DEAL.

>> WHAT MY ROLE IS IS WE WORKED FOR THE FAMILIES AND OTHERS THAT ARE PARENTS AND FAMILIES ARE WRONGFULLY DETAINED.

I AM NOT THE LEAD NEGOTIATOR.

I AM NOT A NEGOTIATOR BUT I'VE TALKED ABOUT THE IRANIANS AND ARE VERY CAPABLE IRAN ENVOY, ROBERT MALLEY.

THERE IS VERY SERIOUS NEGOTIATIONS GOING ON THAT I AGREE WITH THE ADMINISTRATION, THERE IS NO DEAL AT THIS TIME BUT THEY ARE MEETING INTENSIVELY AND THE VICTIMS HERE ARE THESE THREE AMERICANS THAT ARE SUFFERING, THAT ARE BEING USED AS POLITICAL PAWNS AND THIS HAS HAPPENED IN RUSSIA, VENEZUELA, IRAN, NORTH KOREA.

IT'S A PATTERN.

IF A NEW HOSTAGE DIPLOMACY THAT WE HAVE TO START CONFRONTING AND THIS PRESIDENT I BELIEVE HAS DONE A GOOD JOB SO FAR.

>> I WILL GET TO THAT LATER ABOUT HOW ONE DOES START CONFRONTING MORE ON A GLOBAL ISSUE BUT CAN I GO QUICK TO YOU.

THIS RATHER HEARTBREAKING PLEA THAT AMANPOUR TO ASKED ME TO BE ABLE TO DIRECT TO THE PRESIDENT HIMSELF VIA THE MEDIA VYAS, THIS IS WHAT HE SAID ON THURSDAY TO US.

>> PRESIDENT BIDEN I CERTAINLY HEAR AND I SINCERELY APPRECIATE YOUR ADMINISTRATION'S REPEATED DECLARATIONS OF FREEING AMERICAN HOSTAGES IN IRAN.

I REMAIN DEEPLY WORRIED THAT THE WHITE HOUSE DOESN'T APPRECIATE HOW DIRE OUR SITUATION HAS BECOME.

IT'S ALSO VERY HURTFUL AND UPSETTING THAT AFTER 25 MONTHS IN OFFICE YOU HAVE NOT FOUND THE TIME TO MEET WITH OUR FAMILIES.

JUST GIVE THEM WORDS OF ASSURANCE.

SIR, WE HAVE NOW LANGUISHED HERE FOR 18 YEARS.

OUR LIVES AND FAMILIES HAVE BEEN UTTERLY DEVASTATED.

WE DESPERATELY DESPERATELY NEED YOU TO FINALLY CONCLUDE THAT WE HAVE SUFFERED LONG ENOUGH.

>> CHRISTIANE: YOU CAN HEAR THE EMOTION AND I MAN WHO WAS BEING UNJUSTLY HELD IN AN IRANIAN PRISON OR 7 1/2 YEARS PLUS THE OTHER TWO.

SO I WANT TO ASK YOU BASED AGAIN ON YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH OTHER SUCH CASES AND LOBBYING FOR FAMILIES, DO YOU THINK THAT THE PRESIDENT COULD AND SHOULD AS A MATTER OF JUST COMFORT AND COMMITMENT MEET WITH THE TAHBAZ AND NAMAZI AND OTHER FAMILIES?

>> OTHER FAMILIES HAVE MEANT AND I THINK THE PRESIDENT SHOULD MEET WITH THEM.

I THINK IT'S THE RESPONSIBILITY OF EVERY PRESIDENT TO TRY TO GET AMERICAN HOSTAGES HOME REGARDLESS AND USUALLY IF IT'S A PRISONER EXCHANGE OR IT SOME KIND OF DEAL IT'S WORTHY TO DO EVEN THOUGH IT MAY BE UNSEEMLY SO YES, I THINK THE PRESIDENT SHOULD MEET WITH THEM AND I WOULD SUPPORT THE PRESIDENT IF HE MAKES A NEGOTIATED DEAL WITH THE IRRADIANCE.

I THINK IT'S OUR RESPONSIBILITY TO BRING THESE THREE HOME.

THEY HAVE SUFFERED ENOUGH.

THEIR FAMILIES HAVE SUFFERED.

WE REPRESENT AND WORK CLOSELY WITH ONE OF THE FAMILIES, THE SHARGI FAMILY.

I THINK HAPPENED, BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THE RECORD ON VENEZUELA AND RUSSIA AND THE PRESIDENT DOES MEET WITH THESE FAMILIES, HE SHOULD DO THAT.

>> WHY DO YOU THINK HE HAS NOT?

THEY ARE APPEALING FOR THIS DESPERATELY.

IS IRAN, PARTICULARLY NOW SUPERSENSITIVE IN SOME WAY?

IS THE CASE OF IRAN SOMETHING UNPALATABLE FOR THE PRESIDENT?

>> I THINK -- HERE IS TWO ISSUES.

ONE I THINK THE PRESIDENT MAY BE WAITING AND I'M NOT THE NEGOTIATOR FOR SOME KIND OF FRAMEWORK OF A DEAL TO HAPPEN SO HE'S WAITING FOR THAT.

THAT HAS NOT HAPPENED.

I THINK WHAT MIGHT HAPPEN IS A MEETING WHERE A FRAMEWORK IS CLOSE AND HE SHOULD MEET WITH THEM REGARDLESS.

THESE ARE WONDERFUL AMERICANS AND MANY THAT I HAVE DEALT WITH AROUND THE WORLD.

THEY ARE AMERICAN VETERANS AND THEY ARE WRONGFULLY DETAINED.

THERE MAY BE 70 AROUND THE WORLD SO I THINK IT'S THE DUTY OF EVERY PRESIDENT TO DO THAT.

THEY DON'T ALWAYS LISTEN TO ME BUT YES, AND I THINK YOUR INTERVIEW SHOWS THE PAIN THAT MANY OF THESE AMERICANS HAVE AND THEY WANT HOPE AND IT THE PRESIDENT THAT CAN MAKE THIS HAPPEN.

>> Christiane: SO YOU HAVE SAID CORRECTLY THAT PRESIDENTS AND WE ARE JUST TALKING ABOUT IRAN NOW, PRESIDENTS FROM I GUESS RONALD REAGAN HAVE MADE THESE DEALS TO GET AMERICANS BACK WHETHER THEY ARE THE AMERICAN HOSTAGES IN THE EMBASSY OVER THE REVOLUTION OR WHETHER THEY WERE THE ONES HELD IN LEBANON WHERE THERE ARE SEVERAL PRISONER SWAPS THAT HAVE HAPPENED AND CERTAINLY SIAMAK NAMAZI HAS NOT BEEN RELEASED NOR HAS THE OTHERS.

DO YOU THINK THE PRESIDENTS CAN PERSUADE USUAL SUSPECTS WHO WOULD DISAGREE WHETHER IT'S THE CONSERVATIVES IN CONGRESS OR CONSERVATIVE MEDIA.

DO YOU THINK THAT HE CAN SELL THIS PROPOSAL TO MAKE A DEAL WITH IRAN FOR AMERICAN CITIZENS?

>> AS I UNDERSTAND IT AND I HAVE TALKED TO BOTH SIDES.

I THINK THAT WHAT IS INVOLVED HERE IS NOT NECESSARILY PRISONER EXCHANGE THAT I'M NOT GOING TO GO TO THE DETAILS.

IS A DEAL DOABLE?

YES.

IS IT POSSIBLE?

YES.

WILL IT BE SOON?

I BELIEVE SO.

I'M AN OPTIMIST.

THE GREINER DEAL WAS A SWAP WITH A MAN NAMED --WHO WAS A HORRENDOUS PERSON.

IT MAY NOT BE A GOOD DEAL THAT WILL PLEASE EVERYBODY CONSERVATORS AND REPUBLICANS BY THINK IS THE SOLEMN DUTY OF A PRESIDENT TO DO EVERYTHING HE OR SHE CAN TO BRING AMERICANS HOME AND I'M OPTIMISTIC.

I DON'T HAVE THE DETAILS.

WE SHOULD BE VERY CIRCUMSPECT.

THE RELATIONSHIP WITH IRAN IS NOT GOOD.

WE HAVE A NUCLEAR TREATY THAT PROBABLY IS IN SHAMBLES BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT ON HUMANITARIAN ISSUES OR ISSUES RELATED TO PRISONERS AMERICANS WRONGFULLY DETAINED THAT THE PRESIDENT SHOULDN'T MAKE A DEAL.

IT'S PROBABLY NOT GOING TO BE POPULAR, BUT I WILL SUPPORT HIM AND I THINK MANY WILL AS THEY DID WITH THE GRINER DEAL, WITH VENEZUELANS, THE PRESIDENT IS AN EMPATHETIC GUY.

HE'S GOOD AT MEETINGS WITH FAMILIES.

HE SHOULD DO THAT.

>> YOU COULD PICK UP THE PHONE AND SUGGESTED.

>> THEY DON'T ALWAYS LISTEN TO ME.

I DON'T WORK FOR THEM.

I HAVE A FOUNDATION AND I WORK FOR THE FAMILIES.

SO I HOPE HE DOES.

>> LET ME ASK YOU THIS.

>> YOU ARE SAYING THAT HE COULD SELL IT AND OF COURSE THEY HAVE DONE IN THE PAST WITH MANY AMERICANS BEING FREED HAVING BEEN HELD BY IRAN OFTEN IN ORDER TO GET THEIR OWN MONEY BACK.

IT APPEARS THAT THIS DEAL IS ABOUT GIVING IRAN THE MONEY THAT SOUTH KOREA SHOULD HAVE PAID AND ACTUALLY NOT GOING STRAIGHT TO IRAN BUT IN AN ESCROW ACCOUNT USED IN PURCHASES.

SOUTH KOREA GOT OIL WORTH $7 BILLION AND IRAN WANTS THE MONEY THAT AND IT FEELS SEEMS QATAR HAS FIGURED OUT SOMETHING THAT IS ACCEPTABLE.

SO LET'S PLAY DEVILS ADVOCATE FOR A MOMENT BECAUSE THERE IS A WHOLE SORT OF GLOBAL MOTION.

ANY KIND OF DEAL TO GET ANYBODY BACK, DOES IT NOT RISK ENCOURAGING THE SAME COUNTRIES AND OTHER COUNTRIES TO DO THAT?

IS THERE A WAY TO GET SOME KIND OF ISSUE SO THAT THESE ISSUES ARE DEALT WITH IN PARTNERSHIP?

>> I THINK THE FIRST THING WE SHOULD DO IS PUBLICLY ANNOUNCED THAT ANY COUNTRY THAT WRONGFULLY DETAINED AMERICANS IS GOING TO GET SANCTIONED IMMEDIATELY.

NOT JUST INDIVIDUAL PEOPLE BUT INDUSTRIES AND ET CETERA.

AS AN UNPLEASANT AS IT IS AS A TASK IT SHOULD BE THE FOREIGN- POLICY DUTY OF OUR COUNTRY ESPECIALLY IF IT INVOLVES AMERICAN VETERANS OR IF THEY ARE WRONGFULLY DETAINED, OR THREE IN IRAN FOR US TO DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO BRING THEM BACK IT COULD BE UNPOPULAR, IT COULD BE A BAD PERSON IN A PRISONER EXCHANGE BUT IN THIS CASE I'M NOT GOING TO GO INTO DETAILS BUT OF THE PROBLEMS IS THAT IRAN AND THE UNITED STATES DON'T TALK TO EACH OTHER HAVE TO DO IT THROUGH INTERMEDIARIES AND THAT HAS BEEN A PROBLEM BUT PROGRESS HAS BEEN MADE IN OUR GOVERNMENT IS TRYING VERY HARD TO GET THEM OUT BUT AT THE VERY LEAST, MEET WITH THEM.

FEEL THE PAIN OF THE PARENTS AND OF THE FAMILIES.

FIND A WAY TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN.

I WILL SUPPORT THE PRESIDENT NO MATTER WHAT THE DEAL IS.

>> LET ME FINALLY ASK YOU, CERTAINLY THE FAMILIES DO BELIEVE THAT OBVIOUSLY AND THERE'S SO MUCH --AS YOU SAID INCLUDING FOR BRITNEY GRINER WHO WAS RELEASED IN AN EXCHANGE DURING A PERIOD WHERE THE UNITED STATES IS IN A WAY CERTAINLY ADVERSARIAL WITH RUSSIA WAS HOLDING HER RIGHT NOW.

ANYWAY, I WANT TO ASK YOU IN TERMS OF AMERICAN FORMANT POLICY WHAT YOU MAKE AND SHOULD THE UNITED STATES BE CONCERNED OF CHINA NOW AS A PEACE BROKER IF YOU LIKE CERTAINLY BETWEEN IRAN AND SAUDI ARABIA.

THE FOREIGN-POLICY ESTABLISHMENT --STEAM IS COMING OUT OF THEIR EARS BECAUSE IT'S SO IT'S SO EXTRAORDINARY THAT THEY WOULD CUT OUT THE AMERICANS AND BETWEEN TWO SUCH STRONG ADVERSARIES IN THAT REGION.

>> IT IS A SIGNIFICANT DEVELOPMENT BUT IT IS A TECTONIC SHIFT?

I DON'T THINK SO AND I THINK WE HAVE TO HAVE A VISION TO DEAL WITH IT.

HERE'S THE WAY I SEE IT.

NUMBER ONE, CHINA INTO AN ANTI- --ACCESS.

NUMBER TWO, THE SAUDI'S WHEN I WAS ENERGY SECRETARY.

THEY ARE PLAYING ALL SIDES MAINLY WITH THE EASTERN BLOC WITH RUSSIA AND CHINA.

I THINK IRAN HAS GOTTEN SOME COVER IN THE REGION BY THIS ARRANGEMENT AND CHINA IS A GEOPOLITICAL PLAYER.

WHAT WE HAVE TO DO FIRST.

THERE IS STILL A LOT OF GRIEVANCES WITH IRAN AND -- THAT WE HAVE TO ADAPT TO THIS AND MY ANSWER IS ENGAGEMENT.

DIALOGUE.

TALK TO BAD PEOPLE.

I HAVE DONE IT ALL MY LIFE NOT THAT IT HAS ALWAYS WORKED BUT YOU HAVE TO HAVE A DIALOGUE.

YOU CAN'T JUST SAY OH, THIS IS TERRIBLE, WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO?

LET'S DEAL WITH THAT AND HAVE A STRATEGY AND VISION.

>> Christiane: ALL RIGHT, GOVERNOR RICHARDSON, THANK YOU SO MUCH INDEED FOR JOINING US.

AND THAT NOW LET'S TURN TO ONE OF THE PRISONERS IN IRAN, IN 2019 MORAD TAHBAZ, AN ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATIONIST WAS SENTENCED TO 10 YEARS IN PRISON FOR INCORPORATING WHAT THEY HOSTILE GOVERNMENT BEING THE UNITED STATES OF WHICH HE IS A CITIZEN.

AND DESPITE THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION SAYING IT IS QUOTE WORKING TIRELESSLY TO SECURE THE RELEASE OF HER FATHER AND OTHER DETAINEES, TARA TAHBAZ SAYS THAT SHE AND THE OTHER FAMILY MEMBERS HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO MEET WITH PRESIDENT BIDEN SO FAR.

TARA IS NOW JOINING US LIVE FROM CONNECTICUT.

SO, YOU JUST HEARD WHAT GOVERNOR BILL RICHARDSON SAYS AND HE HOLDS A VERY IMPORTANT POSITION.

NOT AN OFFICIAL POSITION BUT HE HAS WORKED FOR OTHER FAMILIES IN THE PAST AND HE IS WORKING WITH ONE OF THE FAMILIES, ONE OF YOUR FAMILIES RIGHT NOW.

WHAT DID YOU MAKE OF WHAT HE SAID ABOUT THE KEY ISSUE OF MEETING THE PRESIDENT?

>> FIRST AND FOREMOST I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME TODAY AND FOR ALL OF YOUR CONTINUED SUPPORT FOR OUR FAMILIES.

IT MEANS MUCH TO US.

EVERYTHING THAT HE SAID, IT MEANT SO MUCH TO US TO HAVE THAT SUPPORT AND WE COULDN'T BE MORE ALIGNED WITH HIM.

CONGRESSIONAL SUPPORT ACROSS THE BOARD AND WE NEED ALL THE AMERICAN PEOPLE TO SUPPORT US BECAUSE ULTIMATELY PRESIDENT BIDEN WILL HAVE THE POWER TO MAKE THE FINAL DECISION THAT WILL BRING MY PARENTS HOME, SIAMAK NAMAZI HOME, EMAD SHARGI HOME AND WE NEED EVERYONE TO STAND WITH OUR FAMILIES TO SUPPORT HIM TO MAKE THAT DIFFICULT BUT NECESSARY DECISION.

>> Christiane: YOU SAID SOMETHING AFTER THE OTHER INTERVIEW WHEN THE LAWYER AND THAT YOU, MEMBERS OF FAMILY, HELD A PRESS CONFERENCE.

YOU REFERRED TO BRITNEY GRINER AND HER RELEASE AND HOW SHE WAS TREATED AND HOW HER FAMILY WAS TREATED COMPARED TO YOU BY THE WHITE HOUSE.

WHAT WERE YOU SAYING?

>> YOU KNOW, I THINK THE ADMINISTRATION FROM DAY ONE HAS STATED THAT OUR LOVED ONES ARE PRIORITY TO COME HOME AND NOW THEY HAVE BEEN IN OFFICE FOR 25 MONTH YET OUR FAMILIES HAVE NOT RESIDENT FOR FIVE MINUTES AND WHILE MY FATHER AND MY MOTHER, SIAMAK NAMAZI AND EMAD SHARGI ARE NOT CELEBRITIES OR HIGH- PROFILE CITIZENS WE SHOULD BE AFFORDED THE SAME FORTITUDE THAT WAS APPLIED FOR BRITNEY GRINER AND THE OPPORTUNITY THAT HER FAMILY RECEIVED TO BE ABLE TO TELL THEIR PLIGHT FIRST TIME FIRSTHAND IT TO THE PRESIDENT AND SHARE OUR PAIN, OUR FEAR AND BEGGING HIM TO DO WHAT IS NEEDED.

AT THE END OF THE DAY THEY ARE INNOCENT AMERICANS AND THEY ARE THERE BECAUSE THEY ARE AMERICAN, SO THEY SHOULD BE AFFORDED THE PROTECTION FROM THEIR COUNTRY AND TO HAVE ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING DONE TO BRING THEM HOME AND FOR THEM TO BE REUNITED WITH THEIR FAMILIES.

>> HOW LONG IS IT SINCE YOU HAVE NOT SEEN YOUR PARENTS?

I KNOW YOUR MOTHER IS NOT DETAINED, BUT SHE IS NOT FREE TO LEAVE IRAN AT THE MOMENT.

HOW LONG SINCE YOU HAVE SEEN THEM?

>> SO I WAS ACTUALLY WITH THEM IN IRAN IN NOVEMBER OF 2000 17 2017 AND UPON LEAVING IS WHEN MY FATHER'S TRAVEL BAN BEGAN BUT I HAD TO COME BACK HOME TO START A NEW JOB AND IT WAS JANUARY 10th OF 2018 THAT MY FATHER WAS DETAINED SO I HAVEN'T SEEN EITHER OF THEM SINCE I LEFT THE COUNTRY.

>> Christiane: IT'S AROUND SIX YEARS OR SO SINCE THEN -- >> YES.

>> Christiane: TELLS ABOUT YOUR FATHER.

WE DESCRIBED HIM AS AN ENVIRONMENTALIST AND CONSERVATIONIST.

GIVE US SOME DETAILS ABOUT HIM AND ALSO HOW HE IS DOING.

>> YES, OF COURSE.

MY FATHER HIS WHOLE LIFE FROM A YOUNG AGE HAS BEEN VERY PASSIONATE ABOUT ENVIRONMENTS AND ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION.

ALSO WILDLIFE PRESERVATION PERSIAN WILDLIFE HERITAGE --A COFOUND THE PERSIAN WILDLIFE HERITAGE FOUNDATION -- MY FATHER IS AN AMAZING PERSON.

HE IS A SO CALM, SO KIND, SO GENEROUS, SO NOBLE, HE WILL MOVE MOUNTAINS TO PROTECT THE PEOPLE HE CARES ABOUT.

HE IS AN AMAZING FATHER AND THAT GOES WITHOUT SAYING AND I THINK JUST HOW MY SIBLINGS AND I HAVE BEEN ABLE TO CARRY OURSELVES THROUGH THIS NIGHTMARE IS JUST A TESTAMENT TO HIM AND MY MOTHER AND EVERYTHING THAT THEY HAVE INSTILLED IN US AND WHO THEY ARE.

>> CAN I ASK YOU A SLIGHTLY TRICKY QUESTION?

AS YOU KNOW THERE ARE THOUSANDS OF IRANIAN WOMEN, CHILDREN, MEN WHO HAVE BEEN ROUNDED UP IN THE LATEST CRACKDOWN ON CIVIL RIGHTS, HUMAN RIGHTS IN THAT COUNTRY.

WE NOW HEAR THAT SOME 22,000 MORE HAVE BEEN GIVEN A PARDON FROM JAIL, BUT REMEMBER THIS, MOST OF THEM ALSO DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO THE PRESS OR ACCESS TO LAWYERS OR PROPER TRIALS ET CETERA.

I WONDER WHETHER YOU FEEL THAT YOU ARE CAUGHT BETWEEN, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW, IRANIAN EXILES OR OTHERS WHO DON'T WANT THIS GOVERNMENT AS IT'S CRACKING DOWN ON HUMAN RIGHTS TO GET ANY KIND OF DEAL, ANY KIND OF MONEY EVEN IF IT'S THEIR OWN MONEY THAT'S GOING TO GO INTO ESCROW SOMEWHERE ELSE.

>> I THINK AT THE END OF THE DAY THEY ARE AMERICANS SO THEY BELONG HERE.

THEY ARE ONLY THERE BECAUSE THEY ARE INNOCENT AMERICANS AND IT'S HEARTBREAKING TO SEE EVERYTHING THAT IS HAPPENING THERE AND I THINK THAT JUSTICE SPEAKS MORE TO THE URGENCY THAT AS AMERICANS WE NEED TO BRING THEM BACK HOME HERE WHERE THEY ARE SAFE AND DETECTED.

>> Christiane: CAN I ASK YOU ANOTHER QUESTION?

I HAVE HEARD FROM PEOPLE IN YOUR POSITION THAT DURING THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION IT WAS EASIER TO GET TO MEET WITH SENIOR OFFICIALS FOR FAMILIES.

WHAT WAS YOUR EXPERIENCE DURING THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION?

YOU REMEMBER THE SECRETARY OF STATE MADE QUITE A BIG --AT THE TIME THAT RETURNING HOSTAGES WAS A TOP PRIORITY FOR THE ADMINISTRATION.

DID THEY ENGAGE WITH YOU ANYMORE OR DIFFERENTLY THAN THE CURRENT ADMINISTRATION?

>> OUR FAMILY HAS BEEN VERY GRATEFUL BOTH TO THE NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL AS WELL AS THE STATE DEPARTMENT AND BOTH ADMINISTRATIONS.

THEY HAVE BEEN THERE AND BEEN WITH US AND SUPPORTED US ESPECIALLY THIS ADMINISTRATION, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY WHILE THEY ARE PROVIDING ALL THESE SUPPORT IT'S NEARLY SIX YEARS THAT I'M STILL WITHOUT MY PARENTS AND HE WAS LEFT BEHIND FROM THE PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATION AS WELL AS BY THE UK GOVERNMENT WHEN FOREIGN MINISTER LIZ TRUSS STRUCK A DEAL THAT LEFT MY PARENTS BEHIND AND WE HAVE SEEN SIAMAK NAMAZI BEHIND THREE DIFFERENT ADMINISTRATIONS AND THIS IS WHY WE ARE TRYING TO GET TO BIDEN AND ULTIMATELY HE IS THE ONE WHO WILL MAKE THE DECISION TO BRING THEM HOME.

WE ARE SO GRATEFUL FOR EVERYONE IN BETWEEN WHO HAS BEEN GRATEFUL BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY HE WILL MAKE THE ULTIMATE DECISION THAT BRINGS THEM HOME AND WE CAN'T EMPHASIZE ENOUGH THAT WE NEED THE CONGRESSIONAL SUPPORT AND ALL THE AMERICAN PEOPLE TO STAND WITH US TO HELP HIM MAKE THE DIFFICULT BUT NECESSARY'S DECISIONS.

>> Christiane: TRAN21 THANK YOU VERY MUCH INDEED FOR TALKING TO US AND YOU MENTIONED THE BRITISH ANGLE BECAUSE YOU'RE ALSO --YOUR FATHER IS ALSO A UK CITIZEN.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>>> THE 100-YEAR-OLD BROADCASTER WITH A STERLING GLOBAL REPUTATION IS TRYING TO RECOVER FROM WHAT IS BEING DESCRIBED AS A DEVASTATING OWN GOAL.

THE FORMER FOOT ALL-STAR AND HOST MATCH OF THE DAY IS BACK ON AIR AFTER BEING SUSPENDED WHEN THE BBC ACCUSED HIM OF BREAKING THEIR IMPARTIALITY ROLES.

LINEKER HAD CRITICIZED BRENNA'S BRITAIN'S NEW AND DRACONIAN POLICY TO STOP THEM CROSSING THE CHANNEL CALLING THE GOVERNMENTS LANGUAGE AND APPROACH REMINISCENT OF 1930s GERMANY.

MIGRATION IS A HOT BUTTON ISSUE IN MANY PARTS OF THE WORLD.

JUST YESTERDAY AT LEAST EIGHT PEOPLE DIED AFTER TWO SMUGGLING BOATS CAPSIZED OFF SAN DIEGO'S SHORE.

THE WEALTH OF REFUGEES BY THE OXFORD UNIVERSITY PROFESSOR ALEXANDER BETTS HIGHLIGHTS HOW REFUGEES HAVE ALWAYS ADDED VALUE TO THEIR HOST COUNTRIES AND HE IS JOINING ME NOW LIVE FROM OXFORD.

WE HAVE TALKED MANY TIMES OVER THE YEARS ABOUT THIS ISSUE.

CAN I JUST TRY TO TALK ABOUT THE POLICY RATHER THAN THE POLITICS OF THE SUITE AND ALL THE FURY OVER THE LAST SEVERAL DAYS.

BEFORE WE DISCUSSED THE GARY LINEKER TWEET, THE CURRENT HOME SECRETARY IN CHARGE OF THIS NEW POLICY ABOUT TRYING TO STOP THE SMALL BOATS COMING ACROSS INTO THE CHANNEL SAYS THERE ARE 100 MILLION PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD WHO COULD QUALIFY FOR PROTECTION UNDER OUR CURRENT LAWS.

THEY ARE COMING HERE.

ARE THOSE NUMBERS FROM BRAVERMAN EXAGGERATED?

ARE 100 MILLION PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD TRYING TO COME HERE NOW?

>> THIS IS AN ENORMOUS EXAGGERATION.

THERE ARE 100 MILLION DISPLACED PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD AND ONLY AROUND EIGHT OUT OF THEM ARE REFUGEES.

THE IDEA THAT 100 MILLION PEOPLE ARE POTENTIALLY ALL ASPIRING TO COME TO THE UK IS A GROSS EXAGGERATION AND MISREPRESENTATION.

IN REALITY LAST YEAR, THE UK RECEIVED ABOUT 45 THOUSAND PEOPLE BY BOAT ACROSS THE ENGLISH CHANNEL AND RECEIVED ABOUT 75,000 ASYLUM APPLICATIONS.

IF WE PUT THAT IN PERSPECTIVE ACROSS EUROPE AT LEAST THREE OTHER COUNTRIES RECEIVED HIGH NUMBERS OF APPLICATIONS.

GERMANY, FRANCE, AND SPAIN AND AGAIN IF WE PUT THAT IN GLOBAL PERSPECTIVE WE CAN SEE COUNTRIES AROUND THE WORLD LIKE JORDAN, LEBANON, TURKEY, UGANDA, KENYA, SOME OF THE POOREST SOCIETIES OF THE WORLD WITH MANY MULTIPLES OF REFUGEES SEEKING TO COME TO THE UK SO IT IS AN EXAGGERATION BUT AT AN IRRESPONSIBLE LEVEL.

>> Christiane: GARY LINEKER'S TWEET STARTED WITH QUESTIONING THE IDEA BY THE GOVERNMENT THAT THERE IS A MASSIVE INFLUX INTO THIS COUNTRY BY THE CHANNEL OR WHEREVER AND HE SAID SOMETHING SIMILAR.

WE TAKE FAR FEWER REFUGEES THAN OTHER MAJOR EUROPEAN COUNTRIES.

SO YOU JUST MENTIONED, THE REPORTED 303,000 IRREGULAR BORDER CROSSINGS LAST YEAR.

WELL ABOVE THE NUMBER YOU QUOTED HIM 47,000 COMING TO THE UK.

SO HE IS RIGHT ON THE POLICY THAT THERE IS NO MASSIVE INFLUX COUNTRY.

>> SO I THINK WE NEED TO LOOK AT BALANCE.

RECOGNIZED THE NUMBERS CROSSING THE ENGLISH CHANNEL ARE RISING.

WE NEED TO RECOGNIZE THAT UK HAS RECEIVED MORE ASYLUM APPLICATIONS THAN AT ANY POINT IN THE PAST 20 YEARS BUT WE ALSO NEED TO GET THE SENSE OF DETECTED THAT THE REASON FOR THESE NUMBERS RISING AS WE ARE IN A MORE FRACTURED GLOBAL WAR.

WE HAVE MORE PEOPLE FACING WAR YOU NEED TO CROSS BORDERS AS A LAST RESULT TO ACCESS THE MOST FUNDAMENTAL HUMAN RIGHTS AND MOST ARE NOT COMING TO THE UK.

LAST YEAR THERE WERE ABOUT 550,000 ASYLUM APPLICATIONS ACROSS EUROPE.

UKRAINIANS RECEIVED ACCESS TO TEMPORARY PROTECTION AND THAT UK WAS VERY GENEROUS IN OFFERING 160,000 PLACES TO UKRAINIAN PEOPLE BUT 160,000 COMPARED TO THE OVERALL NUMBER OF SOME 5 MILLION MEANS DOING THAT BIT IS VERY MUCH WHAT WE ARE DOING BUT WE ARE NOT DISPROPORTIONATELY TAKING LARGE NUMBERS OF REFUGEES.

>> THAT'S A HUGE DISCREPANCY.

160,000 VERSUS 5 MILLION SO WE WILL TALK THAT FOR A MINUTE AND I JUST THAT.

I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT THE OTHER THING THAT GOT A LOT OF THE GOVERNMENT AND ITS ACCOLADES UPSET AND THAT WAS CHRIS SKIDMORE'S DESCRIPTION OF THAT POLICY.

>> THIS IS AN IMMEASURABLY CRUEL POLICY DEVELOPED AT THE MOST WONDERFUL PEOPLE."

SO WHAT IS THE POLICY AND HOW CRUEL IS IT?

WE HAVE HEARD OF THEM BEING SENT BACK TO COUNTRY OF ORIGIN.

WHAT IS THE CRUELTY HERE?

>> --DISCUSSING THE LANGUAGE AND ASPECT OF THE LANGUAGE TALKED ABOUT THE PATRIOTIC GEORDIE IN CONTRAST TO THAT WITH EXAGGERATED CLAIMS OF THE THREAT TO TAXPAYERS, THE THREAT TO NATIONAL SECURITY AND THE LARGE NUMBERS.

WHAT DOES THE POLICY IT SELF IMPLIED?

IT IMPLIES THAT PEOPLE WHO GO ACROSS THE ENGLISH CHANNEL WILL --AND THAT THEY WILL NOT HAVE ACCESS TO BILL OR TRADITIONAL REVIEW AND THEY WON'T BE ADMISSIBLE TO HELP --EVEN IF THEY ARE REFUGEES COMING FROM WAR-TORN SOCIETIES AND WILL FACE IMMEDIATE REMOVAL EITHER TO THE COUNTRY OF ORIGIN OR THIRD COUNTRY THAT MIGHT WON AND MIKE THE ONE IN A DIFFERENT PART OF THE WORLD SUCH AS RWANDA.

SO THIS POLICY, THIS BILL IS ENACTED AND IT'S QUITE SIGNIFICANT THAT IT WILL BE ENACTED IT IS BEING QUESTIONED IN THE COURTS AND THERE ARE QUESTIONS ABOUT HOW IMPLEMENTABLE IT IS IN PRACTICE GIVEN THE LACK OF THIRD COUNTRY AGREEMENTS FOR REMOVAL BUT EVEN IF IT WASN'T ACTIVE THE HISTORICAL SIGNIFICANCE IS THAT IT IS A LIBERAL DEMOCRATIC STATE ABANDONING THE PRINCIPLES OF THE RIGHT ASYLUM.

IT ABANDONS THE PRINCIPLE THAT UNIVERSALLY ANYONE SEEKING SANCTUARY CAN COME TO THE UK OR ANOTHER COUNTRY AND SAY I AM A REFUGEE AND I WOULD LIKE A FAIR HEARING TO ASSESS MY CLAIM.

>> EVEN THE HOME SECRETARY HAS SUGGESTED THAT THIS PLAN MAY NOT WORK.

SHE SAID MORE THAN 50% POSSIBILITY THE UK WOULD PREACH ITS OPERATIONS AND THE U.N.

REFUGEE AGENCY ALSO HAS CONDEMNED THESE PLANS.

SO FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE IS IT LEGAL?

>> SO I THINK IT'S INTERESTING WHEN YOU OPEN UP THE BILL ON THE FIRST PAGE THERE IS A RED FLAG THAT SAYS THIS MIGHT BE IN VIOLATION OF EUROPEAN CONVENTIONAL HUMAN RIGHTS AND IT'S ALSO VERY DIFFICULT TO SEE HOW DISALLOWING PEOPLE TO SEEK ASYLUM DOESN'T VIOLATE THE RIGHT TO SEEK ASYLUM WHICH IS AN ESTABLISHED PRINCIPLE OF HUMAN RIGHTS.

THIS IS PART OF ENGLISH LAW AND PART OF WAR WITHIN THE REGION IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO SEE WHAT THE GOVERNMENT'S CASE COULD POSSIBLY BE THAT JUSTIFIES THAT THE COULD BE COMPATIBLE WITH NATIONAL OR INTERNATIONAL HUMAN RIGHTS AND REFUGEE LAW STANDARD AND WE DON'T KNOW BECAUSE WE CANNOT SEE.

>> GOING THROUGH THE FIRST READING TONIGHT AFTER WE SPEAK OR SECOND READING, SOME CONSERVATIVES, SENIOR CONSERVATIVES DISAGREE WITH THIS THING AND SAY THEY WON'T VOTE FOR IT THE QUESTION IS WILL IT WORK?

EVEN IF IT GOES THROUGH, WILL IT WORK?

>> SO THERE'S A QUESTION I WILL IT GO THROUGH PARLIAMENT AND THAT IS DEBATED.

THERE IS DEBATE ABOUT WHETHER IT WILL GET THROUGH THE COURTS AND IT WILL FACE CHALLENGES.

EVEN IF IT SUCCEEDED IN THOSE AREAS WHICH IS HIGHLY DOUBTFUL THERE ARE QUESTIONS ABOUT WHETHER IT'S IMPLEMENTABLE IN PRACTICE AND THERE ARE TWO MASSIVE OBSTACLES THERE.

ONE IS CAN THE GOVERNMENT REALISTICALLY DETAIN THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE CROSSING THE ENGLISH CHANNEL.

THEY TALKED ABOUT USING MILITARY BASES OR AIR FORCE BASES BUT THE SCALE OF WHAT ANY WAY HUMANE INCLUDING POSSIBLY FOR CHILDREN AND UNACCOMPANIED MINORS AND THE OTHER QUESTION IS THE AGREEMENTS THEY MEET WITH THIRD COUNTRIES.

THEY TALKED ABOUT A DEAL WITH ALBANIA AND IN THE BILL THERE IS A LIST OF A NUMBER OF COUNTRIES THAT THEY CAN SEND PEOPLE BACK TO COUNTRIES OF ORIGIN.

THERE ARE NOT THAT MANY COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD WILLING TO --THE ASYLUM-SEEKERS COMING TO THE UK.

>> CLEARLY THIS IS A LOT OF ONE MIGHT SAY IN THE POLITICAL PRESS, RED MEAT TO THE BASE.

IT LOOKS LIKE THIS IS SOMETHING THAT CERTAIN PARTIES AND WE HAVE SEEN IT BEFORE CAN CAMPAIGN AROUND ELECTIONS AND CERTAINLY RECENT POLLS SAY PUBLIC OPINION NOW IS MUCH MORE POSITIVE TOWARDS IMMIGRATION.

TELL ME ONE THING.

HOW POLITICAL DO YOU THINK IT IS AND HOW MUCH DOES THIS, OBVIOUSLY MANAGED TO FILL JOBS THAT ARE MASSIVELY AND RIGHT NOW?

>> I THINK IT'S VERY MUCH A POLITICAL MOVE.

THE CONSERVATIVE GOVERNMENT IS STRUGGLING IN THE POLLS AND IT NEEDS TO DO SOMETHING TO TO BE SUCCESSFUL IN THE ELECTIONS.

TO ACTUALLY RECOGNIZE THAT HIS CONSERVATIVE BASE IS VERY CONCERNED WITH --AND SO MAKING THIS ANNOUNCEMENT THEY HOPE IT WILL DO SOMETHING TO MAKE -- >> Christiane: THIS IS A LONG DISCUSSION TO BE HAD AND WE REALLY APPRECIATE USE ADDING THE RECORD STRAIGHT ALEXANDER BETZ.

>>> NOW WE TURN TO A DRUG THAT OUR NEXT GUEST SAYS COULD CHANGE THE CONVERSATION ABOUT HIS TIES MEDICAL CONDITION.

NEARLY THAT'S NOT ADULTS LIVE BETWEEN OVERWEIGHT AND OBESE.

WITH THE HELP OF LEG THROUGH WEIGHT LOSS DRUGS DR. IS SEEING SOME PATIENTS LOSE AS MUCH IS 15 TO 16% IN WEIGHT AND SHE JOINS US TO DISCUSS THE RECENT BUZZ AROUND THESE MEDICINES.

>> THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

YOU ARE AN OBESITY MEDICINE PHYSICIAN AT MASS GENERAL AND I WANT TO KNOW RIGHT NOW IF I OPEN THE NEWSPAPER, IF I OPEN MY PHONE I SEE HEADLINES ABOUT A NEW CLASS OF MEDICATIONS WITH NAMES LIKE WEGOVY AND OZEMPIK.

FIRST OF ALL, EXPLAIN WHAT THESE MEDICINES DO.

>> 'S PARTICULAR CLASSES OF ANTI-CITY --ARE CALLED --IN ADVANCE FOR GLUCAGON LIKE PEPTIDE 1 RECEPTIVE AGONIST.

LET'S TALK ABOUT HOW THESE MEDICATIONS WORK IN YOUR BODY.

THEY ACTUALLY WORK PRIMARILY IN THE BRAIN BUT CAUSING TWO YOU WANT THEM TO.

THERE IS A PATHWAY OF OUR GAME CALLED A PALM C PATHWAY WHICH TELLS US TO EAT LESS AND STORE LESS AND THESE MEDICATIONS WORK BY REALLY AUGMENTING THAT PATHWAY STIMULANT THAT PATHWAY TO BEING MORE ACTIVE BUT IT ALSO WORKS DOWN REGULATING OR INHIBITING THE PATHWAY CALLED THE AG RP PATHWAY AND THAT PATHWAY TELLS US TO EAT MORE AND STORE MORE YOU CAN IMAGINE THAT SENSES WORKING DIRECTLY IN THE RAIN WE SEE POTENT DEGREES OF WEIGHT LOSS FROM 15 TO 20% ON AVERAGE FOR THE AGENTS THAT YOU MENTIONED.

THEY WORK A FEW OTHER WAYS.

THEY ACTUALLY SLOW MOVEMENT FOR YOUR G.I.

TRACT.

YOU GO AND EAT THEM THING AND IT MOVES SLOWLY YOU CAN IMAGINE IF YOU ACCESS AND THINGS MOVE SLOWLY BY THE TIME LUNCH HAPPENS YOU ARE PROBABLY STILL FULL WARES YOU WOULD NORMALLY BE HUNGRY SO THAT'S ANOTHER WAY IT WORKS AND IT ACTUALLY IMPROVES HOW YOUR BODY SECRETES A HORMONE CALLED INSULIN AND THEN FINALLY AND THIS IS WHERE PEOPLE DON'T KNOW, IT ACTUALLY --.

THE MORE BROWN OUR FAT TISSUE IS THE MORE ACTIVE IT IS WHICH MEANS THAT EVEN WHEN WE ARE ADDING HERE LIKE WE ARE DOING WE ARE BURNING MORE AT REST THEN WE WOULD BE NORMALLY SO IT WORKS IN A LOT OF DIFFERENT WAYS IN THE BODY AND THIS IS WHY I INC.

IT HAS GOTTEN AS MUCH ATTENTION AS IT HAS GOTTEN.

>> WE SHOULD MENTION THAT YOU DO CONSULT FOR A NUMBER OF PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES INCLUDING PEOPLE WHO MANUFACTURE OZEPMIC AND YOU SAY THIS IS A GAME CHANGER FOR HOW WE INC. OF OBESITY AND WHY IS THAT?

>> I DON'T NECESSARILY THINK OF THIS AS A GAME CHANGER I THINK THESE MEDICATIONS HAVE GOTTEN ATTENTION THAT THEY ARE CHANGING WHAT WE THINK ABOUT THIS DISEASE.

IT WAS IN 2013 WHEN THE AMERICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION ACKNOWLEDGED OBESITY AS A DISEASE BUT THAT CAME AND WENT.

REALLY TAKING MEDICATION AND BENEFITING FROM THESE MEDICATIONS.

YOU --THEY REALIZE THEIR WEIGHT NOT ON THEIR PART.

I THINK THAT'S WHERE WE TALK ABOUT THIS CHANGE IN THE CONVERSATION SURROUNDING OBESITY AND WHAT WE SEE TODAY HERE IN THE U.S. AND AROUND THE WORLD.

>> TELL ME ABOUT THE SIDE EFFECTS CLASS OF DRUGS HAS.

IF WHAT I HAVE YET A DRUG THAT IS HAVE A SIDE EFFECT.

>> 100% TRUE IN TERMS OF LOOKING AT THIS.

THE NUMBER ONE BY THE FACT FROM G POWELL GPL 1 --IS NAUSEA.

PARTICULARLY AS YOU ARE TITRATING THE DOSE THE TREATMENT OF OBESITY GOES TO A DOSE OF 2.4 MILLIGRAMS AND AS THAT PATIENT IS TITRATING FROM 0.25, 1.7 AND THEN FINALLY TO.4 MILLIGRAMS THAT TITRATION MAY MAKE THEM FEEL NAUSEATED.

UP TO 44% OF INDIVIDUALS CAN EXPERIENCE THAT.

WHAT I HAVE FOUND IS THAT YOU NEED TO STATE A DOSE LONGER TO MEDICATE THAT SIDE EFFECT THAT WILL BE IMPORTANT.

BEHIND NAUSEA THE SECOND SIDE EFFECT IS, THE PATIENT AND IF YOU GO BACK TO THESE MEDICINES, THINGS CAN STOP AND SO SOMETIMES WE HAVE TO CHANGE A PERSON'S BOWEL REGIMEN TO MAKE SURE WE DON'T HAVE CONSTIPATION WHICH CAN BE VERY COMMON.

THOSE ARE THE TWO MOST COMMON SIDE EFFECTS THAT WE SEE IN THE POPULATION.

THERE ARE OTHER RARE SIDE EFFECTS BUT THOSE OF THE MOST COMMON.

>> IS THIS A FOREVER MEDICINE?

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT PEOPLE HAVE BEEN REPORTING IS THAT IF THEY GET OFF OF THIS DRUG THAT THE WEIGHT THAT THEY WORKED HARD TO LOSE IS GOING TO COME BACK.

>> THAT'S AN EXCELLENT QUESTION BECAUSE I WANT TO MAKE SURE WE UNDERSTAND THIS.

I WANT US TO THINK ABOUT THIS AND I WILL DIVERT OUR ATTENTION.

DON'T EXPECT TO EAT ONE HEALTHY MEAL SIMILARLY WE DON'T EXPECT THOSE EXERCISES WE WERE DOING BACK IN THE LATE 90s TO LAST US UNTIL TODAY.

SIMILARLY WHEN WE ARE LOOKING AT THESE MEDICATIONS THEY ONLY WORK WHEN WE ARE USING THEM.

--WAS GREAT BACK IN THE DAY BUT IF YOU DON'T DO TODAY IS NOT GIVING YOU IMPACT.

THEN YOU WITHDRAW THE MEDICATIONS AND THAT STUDIES REALLY DEMONSTRATED THIS, WHEN YOU PULL THAT BACK WHAT WE START TO SEE IS WE GET BACK TO WHERE THE PATIENT WAS PRIOR TO ADDING THAT IN.

WHY?

WE ARE NO LONGER ACTING ON THOSE PATHWAYS OF THE BRAIN.

IT CAN'T WORK IF IT'S NOT BEING UTILIZED SO IF YOU ARE A RESPONDER, IF YOU DO NEED THESE MEDICATIONS AND THEY DO MORE FOR YOU THIS IS A CHRONIC USE MEDICATION FOR THE QUANTIC OBESITY.

>> ONE OF THE CRITERIA THAT YOU ARE CHECKING OFF IN YOUR MENTAL CHECKLIST THAT SAYS THIS MIGHT BE A CANDIDATE, BUT WE WOULD BENEFIT FROM THIS VERSUS ANOTHER CANDIDATE WHO MIGHT JUST HAVE TO HEAR THAT HARD NEWS THAT DIET AND EXIT TIES WILL BE THE BEST THING.

>> I TYPICALLY FOLLOW THE GUIDELINES AND THERE ARE SEVERAL SETS OF GUIDELINES BUT THEY ALL ALIGN WITH EACH OTHER SO THEY SAID THAT WE SHOULD CONSIDER MEDICATIONS FOR PATIENTS WITH A BODY MASS INDEX OF 27+ AN OBESITY RELATED DISEASES.

AND THESE ARE DISEASES LIKE HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE, TYPE TWO DIABETES, OBSTRUCTIVE SLEEP APNEA.

IF A PATIENT HAS A GREATER BMI THAN 30 WE COULD UTILIZE MEDICATIONS IN THAT GROUP ALSO.

SO THOSE ARE THE KEY CRITERIA THAT WE ARE OFTEN UTILIZING NOW.

I AM NOT A HUGE FAN OF EMI AND SO I THINK ON AN INDIVIDUAL CLINICIAN BASIS IT'S ALSO IMPORTANT TO LOOK AT THE FULL WHAT TYPE OF OBESITY DO THEY HAVE?

DO THEY HAVE OBESITY -RELATED DISEASE?

MAKING SURE LIKE YOU SAID TO USE THESE IN PATIENTS THAT NEED THEM AND NOT JUST PEOPLE THAT WANT THESE MEDICATIONS.

>> WHAT IF THERE ARE PEOPLE WATCHING RIGHT NOW WHO MAY NOT QUALIFY UNDER CATEGORY OF OBESE BUT THE DOG YOURS ARE PROBABLY CONCERNED ABOUT THEM HEADING INTO A PREDIABETIC MODE, MAYBE THEY HAVE 15 OR 20 POUNDS TO LOSE.

IS THERE A WORLD WHERE THESE DRUGS ARE INTRODUCED FOR A SHORT TIME TO TRY TO GET SOMEBODY JUMPSTART AND GET THEM INTO A SAFER ZONE WHERE THEY CAN GET OFF IT?

OR THIS IS JUST NOT FOR THAT KIND OF PERSON?

>> I DON'T SEE THESE AS MEDICATIONS AS A JUMPSTART BECAUSE THAT PUTS US INTO THIS IDEA OF WEIGHT CYCLING.

WE HAVE SOMETHING THAT BRINGS US DOWN AND WHEN WE WEIGHT CYCLE WE CAN LOSE AND THEN WE TYPICALLY REGAIN AS SOON AS WE WITHDRAW SO I LOOK AT THESE AS APPROPRIATE SCHOOLS FOR PEOPLE THAT DO MEET THESE LONG TERM.

JUST TREATING CHRONIC I WOULD SOMEONE ON A HIGH PRESSURE MEDICINE THAT CAME IN WITH ONE BAD READING AND THEN THEY DIDN'T HAVE EVIDENCE OF SUSTAINED ELEVATION IN THEIR BLOOD PRESSURE AND THAT HOW I THINK SHOULD BE THINKING ABOUT OUR MEDICATIONS.

>> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE HAVE SEEN WITH THIS CATEGORY OF MEDICINE IS THAT IT'S --AND YOU SEE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO ESPECIALLY IN HOLLYWOOD WHO ALMOST BRAD ABOUT THE FACT THAT THIS IS HOW I LOST MY WEIGHT AND THIS IS WHAT WORKS FOR ME.

AND SOME PEOPLE SAY IT'S KIND OF THIS HUSH-HUSH THING WHERE THEY ARE KIND OF PASSING AROUND AND WHAT HAS THAT DONE TO PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY NEED THE DRUGS?

>> I THINK THAT'S A LITTLE BIT DISGUSTING.

I DON'T LIKE TO USE THAT WORD BUT LET'S TALK ABOUT WHY I SEE IT AS DISGUSTING.

THERE HAS BEEN A MAJOR SHORTAGE OF THESE MEDICATIONS.

THIS LASTED THROUGHOUT THE COURSE OF 2022 AND WAS A MAJOR SORE SPOT FOR ME AND MY PATIENTS.

I ONLY TREAT PATIENTS WITH OBESITY AND SO WERE PATIENTS THAT I SEE THESE ARE PATIENTS THAT DO NEED THESE MEDICATIONS BUT FORCE SIX, SEVEN, EIGHT MONTHS OF 2022 MY PATIENTS COULDN'T GET THESE MEDICATIONS SO WHEN THESE PATIENTS THAT NEED IT THAT CAN BENEFIT FROM THE METABOLIC AND IF IT'S FROM THESE DRUGS CAN GET THE MEDICINES AND THEY ARE BEING UTILIZED FOR PEOPLE THAT DON'T NEED THEM, THAT CREATES A DYNAMIC OF THE PEOPLE THAT NEED THESE FOR LONGEVITY OF LIFE, REDUCTION OF HEART ATTACK AND STROKE ARE NOT GETTING THEM AND PEOPLE THAT ARE JUST TRYING TO LOOK CUTE IN A BIKINI OR WHATEVER THEIR NEXT EVENT ON THE RED CARPET TO LOOK GREAT.

I TELL MY PATIENTS THAT I'M CARING ABOUT THEIR HEALTH AND GETTING THEM TO THE HEALTHIEST WEIGHT POSSIBLE.

I DON'T CARE ABOUT THE NEXT WEDDING OR REUNION THEY HAVE.

I WANT TO ALIGN WITH THEIR HEALTH GOALS AND NOT THEIR AESTHETIC GOALS AND I THINK THAT'S EXTREMELY IMPORTANT.

>> THERE'S ALSO SIGNIFICANT COST.

THESE ARE NOT CHEAP DRUGS IF YOU'RE NOT BEING PRESCRIBED THEM WHICH FOR ME IS IN ACCESS AND EQUITY ISSUE AS WELL.

>> ABSOLUTELY I'M ALWAYS THINKING ABOUT EQUITY AND THE ROLE IT PLAYS IN ACCESS TO THERAPY IN PARTICULAR FOR CHRONIC DISEASES LIKE OBESITY AND THIS HAS CREATED THIS DIMORPHISM IN SUCH THAT HAVE WEALTH AND TREMENDOUS ACCESS ARE ABLE TO ACCESS THEM AND THAT REALLY CREATES SIGNIFICANT --FOR ME AS SOMEONE WHO CARES FOR A SIZABLE PORTION OF THE POPULATION.

IT MEANS MEDICATIONS WOULD NOT BE COVERED.

I HAPPEN TO RESIDE IN THE COMMONWEALTH OF MASSACHUSETTS WHERE OUR PRIVATE INSURERS, ET CETERA ARE COVERING THESE MEDICATIONS FOR PATIENTS THAT HAVE THESE HIGH TIER PLANS.

PEOPLE THAT FALL INTO THE GROUP OF MYSELF.

WHAT ABOUT THOSE PEOPLE THAT DON'T HAVE THOSE PLANS?

WHERE THEY CAN'T GET THESE MEDICATIONS FOR $30 A MONTH WHICH IS VERY ASSESSABLE?

IT CREATES A SITUATION WHERE I CAN EVEN PRESCRIBE THESE MEDICATIONS TO THOSE INDIVIDUALS THAT ARE MOST EATING THESE MEDICATIONS.

I REALLY WOULD LIKE TO SEE A SHIFT IN US THINKING ABOUT THIS FROM A --APPROACH.

IF WE GIVE FULL ACCESS THEN WE CAN DRIVE DOWN COSTS.

IT'S PURE ECONOMICS.

THAT'S WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE EVENTUALLY BECAUSE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT OVER 110 MILLION ADULT AND 20 MILLION CHILDREN THAT COULD POTENTIALLY BENEFIT AND RIGHT NOW THERE IS LESS THAN 2 MILLION POTENTIALLY BEING ABLE TO ACCESS ANY AGENT INCLUDING THE CLASS OF STATES.

>> I ALSO WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE CULTURAL COSTS BECAUSE IT SEEMS LIKE ALL THE PREVIOUS CONVERSATIONS WE HAVE ALWAYS HAD ABOUT WEIGHTS HAS BEEN WITH A LITTLE BIT OF A BIAS AND WE HAVE ALL KIND OF BEEN TOLD IT'S DIET AND EXERCISE THAT WILL DO IT AND IF YOU DON'T EXERCISE ENOUGH OR EAT RIGHT YOU WILL END UP OBESE.

IF YOU ARE OBESE THEN THAT MEANS YOU MUST NOT BE EXERCISING AND THAT YOU MUST NOT BE EATING RIGHT, BUT I KNOW PEOPLE IN MY OWN LIFE WHO DID EVERYTHING BY THE BOOK AND CANNOT CHANGE THE WAY THEIR BODY SHAPES.

>> I'M GOING TO DELETE THE WORD OBESITY BECAUSE IT CAN PROMOTE STIGMA BUT YOU ARE RIGHT, THE MOST COMMON FORM OF THE GLAND THAT IS STILL ACCEPTABLE IS WEIGHT BIAS.

WE ARE TRYING TO TREAT PEOPLE THAT HAVE EXCESS WHEAT OR OBESITY IN WAYS THAT ARE NOT DEMEANING OR DEVALUING AND NOT NOT RECOGNIZING THAT THEY ARE PUTTING FORTH THE SWEAT EQUITY AND THEY ARE JUST NOT YIELDING RESULTS AND I REALLY WANT THIS AS A RESIDENT, MY OWN BIASES AS A PHYSICIAN AND ONE WHO HAS ALWAYS KNOCKED STRUGGLED WITH MY WEIGHT AND HAS BEEN AN ATHLETE, I HAD A PATIENT THAT WAS IN HER MID-40s WHO HAD SEVERE OBESITY AND HAD STRUGGLED WITH SEVERE OBESITY HER ENTIRE LIFE.

I WAS AN INTERNAL MEDICINE AND PEDIATRIC RESIDENT OF CAROLINA AND WHAT I WOULD DO IS EVERY SINGLE VISIT SHE WOULD COME IN AND SEE ME AND WE WOULD GIVE HER THIS OR THAT DIET RECOMMENDATION, ALL OF THESE THINGS AND OVER THE COURSE OF THREE YEARS I DIDN'T SEE HER WEIGHT SHIFT.

SHE WOULD SHIFT MAY BE BOUND TO POUNDS OR ONE POUND REALLY MAINTAINING HER --.

ONE DAY I WAS LEAVING MY WORKOUT AND I RAN TO THE STORE AND I SAW THIS PATIENT AND AS SHE WAS ABOUT TO CHECK OUT AT THE GROCERY STORE LINE I WAS TALKING TO HER AND I WAS TRYING TO GLANCE AT HER AND TRYING TO BE INCONSPICUOUS AND NOT DOING A GOOD JOB BECAUSE SHE SAYS THE FOLLOWING TO ME.

SHE SAYS, SEE DR. STANFORD, I DID EVERYTHING YOU TOLD ME TO DO AND WHEN YOU LOOKED AT HER CART IT WAS PRISTINE.

PERFECT.

EVERYTHING WE HAD EVER TALKED ABOUT FOR THREE YEARS IN HER GROCERY CART AS SHE'S ABOUT TO CHECK OUT AT THE GROCERY STORE AND IT WAS AT THAT POINT THAT I REALIZED THAT THIS IS NOT JUST ABOUT DIET AND EXERCISE.

NOW SOMEONE WHO NO LONGER WORKS AND HAS NOT WORKED IN SOUTH CAROLINA FOR OVER 12 YEARS I HAVE BEEN IN BOSTON AND I HAVE NO IDEA WHERE SHE IS AND WHAT HER HEALTH IS BUT I CAN TELL YOU WHAT I TOLD HER.

I DIDN'T KNOW THAT I WAS JUST GIVING HER MORE AND MORE RECOMMENDATIONS.

I WASN'T CHANGING HER BIOLOGY.

AND SO IT SIGNIFICANT PAIN TO KNOW THAT I WASN'T ABLE TO HAVE A MAJOR POSITIVE INFLUENCE AND IN MANY WAYS WAS REFLECTING MY OWN STIGMA AND BIAS AGAINST UNTIL THAT KEY MOMENT IN THE GROCERY STORE SO I THINK THAT WAS WHERE IT WAS A MOMENT AND INFLECTION POINT IN MY LIFE AND MY TRAINING IT'S WHAT BROUGHT ME HERE TO BOSTON AND TO HARVARD TO DEAL WITH OBESITY MEDICINE FELLOWSHIP AND LEARN HOW I COULD BE BETTER FOR PATIENTS AND THAT'S REALLY CHANGED EVERYTHING IN THE WORLD FOR ME AND MY PATIENTS.

>> WE ALSO SEE --OF THE ACADEMY OF PEDIATRICS AND I WONDER WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT GIVING CHILDREN OVER 12 ACCESS TO THESE MEDICATIONS?

>> I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE FEAR AND A LOT OF THE BACK LASH THAT I HAVE HEARD IN THE MEDIA PARTICULARLY IN SOCIAL MEDIA ABOUT THE NEW GUIDELINES THAT WERE RELEASED BY THE AP REGARDING THE USE OF MEDICATIONS AND SURGERIES LIKE WE ARE SETTING PEOPLE UP FOR EATING DISORDERS AND WE WILL HAVE PEOPLE HYPERFOCUS ON THE WEIGHT, BUT I HAVE A 12-YEAR- OLD PATIENT THAT IS BEING TREATED WITH PHARMACOTHERAPY FOR OBESITY AND I HAPPEN TO TAKE CARE OF BOTH HER FATHER AND HER MOTHER.

RECENTLY FOR SOME REASON THEY ASKED HER WHAT SHE DIGS ABOUT HER WEIGHT DOCTOR.

I DON'T CALL MYSELF THAT WHAT SHE SAYS I DON'T SEE A WEIGHT DOCTOR.

SHE SAID IS THAT WHAT SHE DOES?

AND SO YOU WONDER HOW AM I ABLE TO TALK AND DEAL WITH A PATIENT FROM THE AGES FROM 10 TO 12 SEEING HER AT LEAST SEVEN OR EIGHT TIMES OVER THAT TIME AND FOR HER TO NOT KNOW WHAT I'M DOING BECAUSE MY FOCUS IS HER OVERALL HEALTH.

I WANT THIS TO BE DONE IN A WAY THAT'S RESPECTFUL AND DOESN'T SET SOMEONE UP FOR DISORDERED EATING AND SOMETHING THAT WHEN SHE LOOKS BACK SHE HAS NO IDEA WHAT I DO FOR A LIVING UNTIL RECENTLY WHEN HER PARENTS TOLD HER, BUT SHE WILL NOT FEEL AS THOUGH THIS IS A PUNITIVE SITUATION.

SHE'S BEEN ABLE TO LIVE LIFE IN A MUCH FULLER FASHION AFTER BEING TREATED FOR OBESITY.

SIMILARLY MY PATIENTS THAT UNDERWENT SURGERY MUST SEVERAL OF MY PATIENTS UNDERWENT BARIATRIC SURGERY IN THEIR TEENS, 14 OR 15 AND THEY ARE NOW IN THEIR MID-30s AND THE BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT WEIGHT STIGMA SETS UP FOR DISCRIMINATION IN THE WORKPLACE, DISCRIMINATION WITH HIRING, DISCRIMINATION WITH HIGHER EDUCATION AND ET CETERA.

WHEN THOSE OPPORTUNITIES ARE DIFFERENT AFTER THEY HAVE BEEN TREATED AND TREATED WITH DIGNITY AND KINDNESS IN THE RESPECT.

>> DR. FATIMA CARLY STANFORD AT MASSACHUSETTS GENERAL HOSPITAL AND A PROFESSOR AT HARVARD, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> IMPORTANT AND FINALLY TONIGHT A NIGHT OF GLITZ AND GLAMOUR THEM IN HISTORY FOR ALL THE RIGHT IS.

ACTORS DIRECTORS WRITERS AND PRODUCERS OF ASIAN DESCENT TOOK THE US YEARS OSCARS BY STORM.

THE MULTI-FIRST INDY "EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE ALL AT ONCE" THOUGHT LEADING LADY MICHELLE YEOH TO WIN.

SHE SAID THAT TO HER THE GOLDEN STATUE IS A BEACON OF HOPE.

>> THIS IS PROOF THAT DREAMS, DREAM BIG AND DREAMS DO COME TRUE.

AND LADIES, DON'T LET ANYBODY TELL YOU THAT YOU ARE EVER PAST YOUR PRIME.

>> AND WE CAN ALL AGREE WITH THAT.

I SPOKE TO YEOH BEFORE THE WORDS SHE TOLD ME ABOUT HER OWN BIG DREAMS AND HER REFUSAL TO BE PIGEONHOLED.

YOU RECEIVE SCRIPTS AND AS THE NUMBERS GET BIGGER THE RULES SEEM TO SHRINK WITH THAT.

AS A WOMAN AS AN ASIAN WOMAN OR WHATEVER IT IS SOMEHOW THEY STOP PUTTING YOU IN BOXES AND IT'S ALWAYS THE GUY WHO GETS TO GO ON THE ADVENTURE AND SAVE THE WORLD AND RESCUE YOUR DAUGHTER AND YOU THINK, WHY CAN'T I DO THAT TOO?

>> THIS WAS YEOH FIRST LEADING ROLE IN A HOLLYWOOD FILM AND BOY DID SHE PROVE HER DOUBTERS WRONG.

EARLIER WE SPOKE ABOUT HOSTILITY AND CRUELTY FACING MANY OF THE WORLD'S REFUGEES WHICH HER CO-STAR HAS EXPERIENCED FIRSTHAND.

HE WON BEST SUPPORTING AND IN AN EMOTIONAL SPEECH HE REFLECTED ON HIS OWN JOURNEY FROM VIETNAMESE REFUGEE TO HOLLYWOOD STAR.

>> MY JOURNEY HAS STARTED ON A BOAT.

SOMEHOW I ENDED UP HERE ON HOLLYWOOD'S BIGGEST STAGE.

>> WHAT A REMARKABLE PAIR AND A TRUE CELEBRATION OF DIVERSITY IN FILM.

THAT IS IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT TO FIND OUT WHAT'S COMING UP ON THE SHOW SIGN UP FOR OUR NEWSLETTER.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING AND JOIN US AGAIN TOMORROW NIGHT.