NOW, AS WE MENTIONED EARLIER, U. S. MID- TERMS ARE FAST APPROACHING.

BEHIND THE SCENES IS AN INTERNAL BATTLE FOR THE FUTURE OF THE CONSERVATIVE MOVEMENT.

ONE OF THE BIGGEST DIVIDES IS BETWEEN OLDER AND YOUNGER GENERATIONS, SO HOW CAN THE RIGHT BRIDGE THAT GAP?

AND WHO MIGHT TAKE THE REINS FROM TRUMP AFTER THE NEXT PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION?

"THE NEW YORKER"'S EMA GREEN JOINS MICHEL MARTIN TO DISCUSS HOW THIS IS PLAYING OUT IN THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION, THE THINK TANK BEHIND PROJECT 2025.

>> THANKS, CHRISTIANE.

EMA GREEN, THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> I THINK MOST PEOPLE KNOW PRESIDENT TRUMP, DONALD TRUMP HAS DRASTICALLY TRANSFORMED THE REPUBLICAN PARTY BUT HE'S NOT GOING TO BE THERE FOREVER.

I WOULD ALSO SAY BY DEFINITION YOU PROFILE THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION AND YOU FIND IT THE PLACE TO LOOK AT WHAT THE STRUGGLE IS WITH WHERE THAT MOVEMENT GOES NEXT WITH THE PARTY AND WHERE THAT MOVEMENT GOES NEXT.

WHY IS THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION AN IMPORTANT PLACE TO LOOK AT THIS QUESTION?

>> FOR 50 YEARS THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION HAS BEEN THE SINGLE BIGGEST INSTITUTION OF THE CONSERVATIVE MOVEMENT.

IT TAKES UP ALMOST A FULL BLOCK ON THE SENATE SIDE OF THE CAPITOL.

HUGE AMOUNTS OF MONEY IN RESERVE, HUGE BUDGETS.

IT'S ALSO GOT LONG REACH INTO THE CAPITOL AND INTO THE WHITE HOUSE.

THERE ARE ALUMNI FROM DECADES AND DECADES OF HERITAGE WORK ALL OVER THE CAPITOL.

SO IT'S IMPORTANT TO LOOK AT HERITAGE BECAUSE THE CHANGES THAT THAT INSTITUTION IS UNDERGOING ARE IN SOME WAY A LABORATORY FOR UNDERSTANDING THE BROADER CHANGES THAT ARE HAPPENING IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

>> SO HERITAGE HAS NEWISH PRESIDENT KEVIN ROBERTS.

WHO IS HE?

AND WHAT WAS HIS MANDATE IN TAKING OVER HERITAGE OR WHAT DID HE COME TO BELIEVE THAT IT IS?

>> KEVIN ROBERTS IS A GUY FROM TEXAS.

MOST RECENTLY HE HAD BEEN RUNNING THE TEXAS PUBLIC POLICY FOUNDATION, WHICH IS A VERY INFLUENTIAL PUBLIC POLICY FOUNDATION IN TEXAS, HELPS TO SHAPE THEIR STATE POLITICS.

HE'S ALSO DEEP FROM THE CATHOLIC WORLD.

HE RAN A SMALL CATHOLIC COLLEGE WHICH DEVELOPED AN OUTSIZED REPUTATION RELATIVE TO ITS SIZE BEING AN INSTITUTION THAT WOULD RAISE UP THE NEXT GENERATION OF YOUNG CATHOLIC THINKERS.

SO HE'S ANACHYDEMIC, ACADEMIC, A SCHOLAR, COMES OUT OF THE YOUNG THINK TANK WORLD.

HE WAS TRYING TO FIND SOMEONE WHO COULD RESTORE GRASS ROOTS, NATIONALIST POPIALIST CREDIBILITY.

THERE HAD BEEN SEVERAL PRESIDENTS PREVIOUSLY HAD GONE THROUGH DISCORD.

ONE SOURCE DESCRIBED HER TO ME AS A KIND OF BOG STANDARD REPUBLICAN ESTABLISHMENT FIGURE, SOMEONE HAD REALLY STANDARD ISSUE REPUBLICAN POLITICS.

AND FROM MY UNDERSTANDING THE BOARD AT HERITAGE WANTED SOMEONE WHO COULD RE-ESTABLISH HERITAGE'S CREDENTIALS WITH THAT GRASS ROOTS BASE.

THEY BROUGHT HIM IN FROM OUTSIDE.

THEY CARED A LOT HE WAS AN OUTSIDER.

AND HE TOOK OVER AT HERITAGE ABOUT FIVE YEARS AGO WITH THIS DETERMINATION TO PUT HERITAGE INTO THE MIDDLE OF THINGS.

HE WANTED TO MOVE FASTER, STARTED USING A LOT OF SPORTS METAPHORS, MARSHAL METAPHORS.

MAYBE IN THE BATTLE WE'RE GOING TO FALL DOWN THE FIELD.

HE WANTED HERITAGE TO BE BACK IN THE GAME.

>> YOU WROTE THERE'S THIS GENERATIONAL DIVIDE.

YOUNG CONSERVATIVES ARE CALLING THE OLD GUARD REAGAN ZOMBIES.

THEY ARE ANGRY.

THEY FEEL THAT THEY ARE BEING DENIED THE THINGS THAT THEY WERE PROMISED.

WHAT DO THEY THINK THE OLDER GENERATION GOT WRONG?

AND WHAT DO THEY WANT INSTEAD?

>> IN MY REPORTING I OFTEN COVER WHAT YOU MIGHT CALL HORSESHOE POLITICS, SO INSTANCES WHERE DIFFERENT SIDES OF THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM ACTUALLY HAVE A SORT OF ECHO.

AND WHAT YOU SEE FROM YOUNG PEOPLE ON THE RIGHT ACTUALLY QUITE MIRRORS WHAT YOU SEE FROM YOUNG PEOPLE ON THE LEFT, WHICH IS SENSE OF DISILLUSIONMENT WITH THE ESTABLISHMENT IN POLITIC, A FEELING THAT THE COMPACT THAT THEY HAD BEEN PROMISED AROUND HAVING A SPOUSE, A HOUSE, CHILDREN, BEING ABLE TO AFFORD THE BASICS OF LIFE --THAT THAT COMPACT HAS BEEN BETRAYED.

AND I WOULD SAY IN THE RIGHT IN PARTICULAR AMONG THE YOUNG THERE'S A REALLY WELL-DEVELOPED SENSIBILITY ABOUT WHERE THE POLITICS OF THE CONSERVATIVE MOVEMENT HAVE FAILED AND HOW THEY SHOULD CHANGE.

A FEW ISSUES IN PARTICULAR INCLUDE WAR, A LOT OF EXHAUSTION WITH FOREVER WARS AND ADVENTURES OVERSEAS.

A SENSE THAT THE UNITED STATES SHOULD BE A STRONG NEGOTIATING POWER, NOT TRYING TO DO DIPLOMACY AND DEALS WITH ENTITIES LIKE CHINA THAT THE YOUNGER GENERATION SEES AS A REAL THREAT TO AMERICA.

AND A DESIRE TO PROMOTE FAMILY, TO WANT PEOPLE TO GET MARRIED AND HAVE CHILDREN, AND SEEING THAT AS A GOOD THE GOVERNMENT CAN PROMOTE.

SO SOME OF THESE ARE REAL SHARP DIFFERENCES WITH WHAT CONSERVATIVE ESTABLISHMENT TYPES MIGHT HAVE SAID DURING THE REAGAN YEARS.

BUT DEPENDING ON WHETHER YOU'RE UNDER OR OVER 45 IS A SORT OF ROUGHLY GOOD METRIC TO SHOW WHETHER YOU WANT A DIFFERENT KIND OF FUTURE FOR THE GOALS THAT CONSERVATIVES WILL PROMOTE.

>> HERITAGE HAS BEEN IN THE NEWS FOR TWO REASONS MAINLY, AND I WANT TO TAKE THOSE SEPARATELY.

FIRST IS PROJECT 2025.

LIKE THIS BECAME AN ISSUE.

IT WAS ALMOST LIKE A CHARACTER, RIGHT, AT THE DEMOCRATIC CONVENTION, YOU KNOW, IN 2024 WITH DEMOCRATS WARNING PROJECT 2025 IS COMING, THIS IS WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO DO.

WELL, IN FACT, YOU KNOW, THIS IS WHAT THEY DID.

I MEAN, PRESIDENT TRUMP DID DISTANCE HIMSELF FROM PROJECT 2025 DURING THE CAMPAIGN.

AND I KNOW YOU SAY IN A WAY THAT ADMINISTRATION HAS KIND OF KEPT THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION A BIT AT ARM'S LENGTH, BUT THE REALITY IS THEY HAVE IMPLEMENTED A LOT OF THOSE GOALS THAT WERE IN PROJECT 2025.

I MEAN DISMANTLING THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION.

SO HOW WOULD YOU DESCRIBE THE INFLUENCE THAT HERITAGE ACTUALLY HAS WITHIN THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION?

>> I THINK IT WOULD HELP TO BACK UP FOR A MOMENT AND JUST TALK ABOUT THE SUBSTANCE OF PROJECT 2025.

SO THIS WAS A SPRAWLING PROJECT.

IT'S MORE THAN 900 PAGES OF POLICY PROPOSALS, AND IT WASN'T JUST THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION.

THEY WERE SORT OF A CONVENER OF THE PROJECT.

IT BROUGHT TOGETHER MORE THAN A HUNDRED CONSERVATIVE ORGANIZATIONS.

AND EVERYBODY WHO IS IN WHAT YOU MIGHT CALL THE CONSERVATIVE THINKING LANDSCAPE --PEOPLE WHO WORK AT THINK TANKS AND FOUNDATIONS, PEOPLE WHO ARE POLICY WONKS, WHO DO THIS STUFF FOR A LIVING --HERITAGE BROUGHT THEM ALL TOGETHER TO TRY TO MAKE THIS COLLABORATIVE UNIFYING BLUEPRINT.

AND THEY BRANDED IT WITH A BELL AND THEY GOT OUT IN FRONT OF IT AND SAID THIS IS HERITAGE.

WE ARE INSTITUTIONALIZING TRUMPISM, WE ARE THE STEWARDS OF THIS PROJECT.

THAT'S WHERE THEY GOT IN TROUBLE WITH THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN IN 2024.

NOW, COME TO PRESIDENT TRUMP BEING IN OFFICE, OF COURSE SOME OF THOSE POLICY PROPOSALS HAVE SHOWN UP.

BUT I WILL SAY THAT ABOLISHING THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION, FOR EXAMPLE, HAS BEEN A LONG-STANDING GOAL OF ACTIVISTS WITHIN THE CONSERVATIVE MOVEMENT.

BUT WHEN I SPOKE TO A SENIOR WHITE HOUSE OFFICIAL WHO'S NOW OUT OF THE ADMINISTRATION, I SENT HIM SOME OF THE FUND-RAISING E-MAILS THAT HERITAGE HAS SENT AROUND TO SAY WE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR IMPLEMENTING THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION'S AGENDA.

THEY'VE ALREADY TAKEN ALL OF OUR RECOMMENDATIONS.

THE RESPONSE OF THIS OFFICIAL, WHO'S A VERY SENIOR WHITE HOUSE OFFICIAL WAS IS THAT IS PREPOSTEROUS ON EVERY LEVEL.

THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF ILLUSION BETWEEN WHAT ACTIVIST PRIORITIES AND THE CONSERVATIVE MOVEMENT HAS BEEN AS A WHOLE AND FOR A LONG TIME, WHAT HERITAGE SPECIFICALLY HAS HAD A HAND IN GUIDING THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION TO DO.

AND I WOULD SAY IT'S A COMPLICATED PICTURE.

TO BE SURE THEY'VE HAD SOME INFLUENCE IN SHAPING THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION AND REPUBLICAN PRIORITIES, BUT I THINK THEY'VE ALSO BEEN HELD AT ARM'S LENGTH, AS THAT SENIOR WHITE HOUSE OFFICIAL TOLD ME.

>> BUT THEN LET'S TALK ABOUT THE OTHER CONTROVERSY YOU REALLY DIG INTO IN YOUR PIECE, WHICH IS TUCKER CARLSON'S INTERVIEW WITH NICK FUN TEZ.

HE'S A WHITE NATIONALIST WHO'S PRAISED HITLER.

HE'S MAIN OPENLY RACIST AND ANTI-SEMITIC REMARKS, NOT TO MENTION I WOULD AURAL MISOGYNISTIC COMMENTS ABOUT WOMEN.

HE DEFENDED CARLSON IN THIS VIDEO.

WHILE HE REJECTED FUENTES' VIEWS CANCELING HIM IS NOT THE ANSWER.

WHY DID THIS BECOME SUCH A FLASH POINT FOR HERITAGE?

>> THIS IS ONE OF THE CENTRAL DRAMAS THAT CAPTIVATED ME BECAUSE IN ONE SENSE IT WAS SORT OF A FLUKE IT SORT OF BECAME THIS HUGE ALL CONSUMING DRAMA, WHICH IT DID.

IT REALLY CONSUMED HERITAGE.

IT CONSUMED THE CONSERVATIVE MOVEMENT FOR MONTHS.

BUT IT WAS A PODCAST THAT THEN KEVIN ROBERTS, THE PRESIDENT, TWEETED THE VIDEO ABOUT AND HE FELT THE NEED TO STEP IN AND DEFEND TUCKER CARLSON BECAUSE HE WAS GETTING ALL THESE NUDGES FROM THE LEADERS IN THE CONSERVATIVE MOVEMENT TO STEP INTO THE FRAY AND DOING THIS THING TUCKER CARLSON WHO THOUGHT IT WAS NOT RIGHT WITH THIS PERSON WITH VILE VIEWS.

WHY IS IT A TWEET ABOUT A PODCAST TOOK UP ALL THE OXYGEN IN THE CONSERVATIVE MOVEMENT?

WELL, AS I ARGUED IN THE PIECE, THIS WAS A PRESTAGING GROUND FOR THE GREAT INTELLECTUAL BATTLE THAT IS COMING FOR THE CONSERVATIVE MOVEMENT I WOULD ARGUE RIGHT AFTER MID-TERM.

WHICH IS A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THE MOVEMENT DO NOT LIKE THE DIRECTION HERITAGE HAS GONE UNDER KEVIN ROBERTS.

HE'S MOVED IN A MORE POPIALIST AND NATIONALIST DIRECTION.

THEY DON'T LIKE KEVIN ROBERTS HAS ALIGNED HIMSELF WITH CERTAIN FACTIONS IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, AND PARTICULAR WITH VICE PRESIDENT VANCE.

AND SO THEY USE THIS MOMENT WHERE PRESIDENT ROBERTS WAS STANDING AND MAKING A STATEMENT IN DEFENSE OF TUCKER CARLSON TO BASICALLY SAY THIS IS NOT WHAT THE CONSERVATIVE MOVEMENT IS, IT'S NOT WHAT IT'S FOR.

AND THAT JUST GOES TO HAY SHOW THAT HERITAGE IS THIS ICONIC INSTITUTION IN THE MOVEMENT.

PEOPLE CARE WHAT HAPPENS TO HERITAGE BECAUSE THEY SEE THAT AS A FUTURE OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

>> WHAT WOULD YOU SAY IS KIND OF A --THE FAULT LINE HERE?

SO WE'VE ALREADY TALKED ABOUT THAT THERE'S A GENERATIONAL DIVIDE, BUT WHAT ELSE?

I MEAN, THERE'S AN IDEOLOGICAL DIVIDE.

THERE'S A PRIORITIES DIVIDE.

WHAT ELSE?

A CULTURAL DIVIDE, A LANGUAGE DIVIDE.

>> YEAH, THERE ARE A LOT.

SO I WOULD SAY FIRST AND FOREMOST THERE'S A GREAT ARGUMENT HAPPENING ON THE RIGHT AS TO THE EXTENT TO WHICH YOUNG ANTI-SEMITES OR PEOPLE WHO HOLD VIEWS THAT ARE ABOUT RACE HAVE INFILTRATED THE BASE OF THE PARTY, EVEN INFILTRATED STAFFERS ON CAPITOL HILL.

SOME PEOPLE MINIMIZE IT AND SAY IT'S NOT ACTUALLY THAT BIG OF AN ISSUE.

BUT THERE ARE A LOT OF ELDER CONSERVATIVES WHO FEEL ANXIOUS ABOUT THIS AND WISH TO DRAW A LINE IN THE SAND.

I THINK THE VIDEO CONTROVERSY REALLY AROSE THE ANXIETIES BECAUSE IT FELT LIKE AN EXPLICIT MOMENT OF GIVING A PASS TO THAT KIND OF YOUNG INTERNET CULTURE THAT CONTAINS A LOT OF BIGOTRY.

I WOULD SAY THE SECOND THING IS IDELOGICAL.

ONE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL WHO HAS CLOSE TRIES TO DR.

ROBERTS DESCRIBES THE STATE OF PLAY AT HERITAGE WHEN DR.

ROBERTS FIRST ARRIVED AS BEING ONE FACTION THAT WAS MAGA SORT OF NATIONALIST PALMULOUS BASED AND ONE FACTION THAT WAS VERY FOREIGN POLICY ORIENTED, VERY HAWKISH FACTION WITHIN HERITAGE.

AND ANOTHER THAT HE DESCRIBED AS THE FREEDOM CONSERVATIVES, SO PEOPLE WHO PUT A REAL PREMIUM ON INDIVIDUAL LIBERTY.

YOU MIGHT CALL THEM LIBERTARIANS WITH A RELIGIOUS STREAK.

SO WITH HERITAGE THESE FACTIONS HAD BEEN BATTLING ONE ANOTHER EVEN BEFORE THE VIDEO CONTROVERSY ERUPTED.

AND WHEN THAT VIDEO CONTROVERSY HAPPENED, IT WAS SORT OF A MOMENT WHEN DIFFERENT MEMBERS OF DIFFERENT PARTS OF THOSE FACTIONS SAW AN OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE THEIR CLAIM ON HERITAGE SHOULD BE MORE IN LINE WITH MY IDEOLOGICAL VIEWS.

OR HERITAGE SHOULD KICK OUT THESE OTHER MEMBERS OF THESE OTHER FACTIONS BECAUSE THEY PROMOTE THINGS THAT AREN'T ACTUALLY CONSERVATIVE.

>> I KIND OF GOT THE IMPRESSION FROM YOUR PIECE, THOUGH, THAT ONE SIDE KIND OF IS WINNING BECAUSE THE PEOPLE WHO AREN'T WITH THE PROGRAM DEFECT AND HAVE ALREADY HAD TO LEAVE.

LIKE, CAN YOU SAY MORE ABOUT THAT?

>> YEAH, YOU KNOW, JUST TO SAY A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE DYNAMIC SHIFT PERSONALITY-WISE, WHICH IS AN IMPORTANT PIECE HERE -- THAT SOURCE I WAS TALKING TO WAS TALKING ABOUT THE TEACHERS PETS, THE CLASS PRESIDENT SUCK UPS.

HE WAS REALLY MAKING THE COMMENT THAT THERE'S BEEN A SHIFT IN WASHINGTON, WHERE THE YOUNG STAFFERS WHO COME TO TOWN ACTUALLY DON'T HAVE THAT PROFILE ANYMORE.

THEY'RE MORE WILLING TO BE AGGRESSIVE.

THEY'RE MORE WILLING TO PICK FIGHTS ABOUT OLD STANDARD PILLAR BELIEFS WITHIN THE CONSERVATIVE MOVEMENT.

AND THAT HAS CHANGED THE WORKPLACE DYNAMIC NOT JUST AT HERITAGE BUT CERTAINLY AT HERITAGE, YOU KNOW, I HEARD FROM A LOT OF PEOPLE ABOUT MEETINGS THAT WOULD HAPPEN TO ADJUDICATE WITH WHAT'S CALLED THE ONE VOICE POLICY.

HERITAGE PUTS OUT STATEMENTS AND EVERYONE HAS TO SPEAK WITH ONE VOICE AFTER THEY PUT OUT A STATEMENT ON A POSITION.

AND THERE WOULD BE YELLING AND ARGUMENTS AND JUST THESE DRAG DOWN, KNOCK OUT FIGHTS OVER WHAT HERITAGE WAS GOING TO PUT OUT ON A POSITION, FOR EXAMPLE, ON ENCOURAGING PEOPLE TO GET MARRIED.

I THINK THIS SPEAKS TO THAT GENERATIONAL SPLIT AND DYNAMIC.

BUT TO SPEAK TO YOUR POINT ONE THING THAT I FOUND WAS REALLY INTERESTING IS THAT SOME OF THE OLD ESTABLISHMENT REPUBLICANS, THE KINDS OF PEOPLE WHO THE YOUNGS OTHERWISE WOULD ABSOLUTELY BE CALLING REAGAN ZOMBIES OR BOOMER-CONS.

THEY'VE ACTUALLY COME OVER TO THE SIDE OF THE YOUNGS.

ALL OF THAT IS TO SAY THAT WE'RE IN THIS REAL PIVOT MOMENT IN OUR POLITICS AND THE CONSERVATIVE MOVEMENT IS REALLY FACING A BIG CHANGE, WHICH IS THERE HAS BEEN A GROWTH AND MOMENTUM FOR A CERTAIN SET OF IDEAS THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN INATH MUTEN YEARS AGO, 15 YEARS AGO THAT NOW HAVE A REAL BASE OF SUPPORT NOT JUST AMONG THE 22-YEAR-OLDS WHO ARE NOW WILLING TO YELL AT MEETINGS AT HERITAGE BUT ALSO AMONG A WIDE VARIETY OF PERHAPS UNEXPECTED BEDFELLOWS WITHIN THE CONSERVATIVE MOVEMENT.

>> LET ME GO BACK TO SOMETHING YOU SAID IN YOUR PIECE.

YOU SAID ONE FORMER HERITAGE EXECUTIVE TOLD YOU THE PODCAST MAY BE THE WHITE PAPER OF OUR TIME, MEANING THAT PODCASTS MAY PLAY THE ROLE POLICY PAPERS ONCE DID IN SHAPING IDEAS.

SO WHAT IS THE IMPLICATION OF THAT FOR A LEGACY INSTITUTION LIKE HERITAGE?

>> YOU KNOW, IN A PREVIOUS TIME IN WASHINGTON, A GENTLER, MILDER TIME IN WASHINGTON IT WAS POSSIBLE TO JUDGE PUBLISHED POLICY PAPERS.

IN FACT BEFORE HERITAGE CAME ALONG IT WAS SORT OF THE STANDARD PUBLISHED POLICY PAPERS PUT OUT POSITIONS AFTER VOTES HAPPENED IN CONGRESS.

PUT OUT POLICY PAPERS BEFORE THE VOTES WERE PUBLISHED.

THINK OF THAT.

THAT WAS SUCH A CONTROVERSY AT THE TIME.

BUT NOW IT'S NOT POSSIBLE TO JUST PUT THINGS OUT AND ASSUME THAT THOSE IDEAS ARE GOING TO GAIN PURCHASE POLITICALLY, THAT THEY'LL HAVE RELEVANCE OR SALIENCE AMONG VOTERS OR THAT THEY WILL REALLY REACH THEIR INTENDED AUDIENCES WITHIN WASHINGTON AND BECOME SATURATED WITHIN THE IDEAS MARKET.

THERE IS THIS NEW MEDIA ENVIRONMENT, AND HERITAGE IS VERY AWARE OF BEING A BIG LEGACY INSTITUTION THAT NEEDS TO BE MORE NIMBLE IN ADAPTING TO THAT MEDIA ENVIRONMENT.

THEY DO HAVE LOTS OF PODCASTS.

THEY HAVE THEIR OWN MEDIA NETWORK, FAIRLY SIGNAL.

THEY'RE TRYING TO BE PART OF THAT MIX AND DEVELOP PEOPLE WHO ARE STARS IN THE CONSERVATIVE MOVEMENT, THAT THEY CAN POINT TO AS KIND OF A REFERENCE POINT NOT JUST AS A POLICY EXPERT BUT AS SOMEONE WHO CAN ATTRACT A FOLLOWING AND DEVELOP A SORT OF PARTY FOR AN IDEA OR CONSTITUENCY FOR AN IDEA.

BUT I THINK ALL THE LEGACY INSTITUTIONS IN WASHINGTON ARE STRUGGLING WITH THIS QUESTION OF HOW TO BE RELEVANT IN A MEDIA ENVIRONMENT THAT IS RAPID, THAT HAS CHANGED DRAMATICALLY EVEN IN JUST THE LAST FIVE TO TEN YEARS.

AND TO NOT JUST DO WHAT THEY ALWAYS DID, WHICH IS PUTTING OUT DOOR STOPPERS WITH PAPERS.

>> BEFORE WE LET YOU GO, HERITAGE IS NOW WORKING ON PROJECT 2029.

THE MOVEMENT HAS TO LOOK TO A POST-TRUMP ERA, RIGHT?

AND PEOPLE TALK ABOUT THAT A LOT.

YOU KNOW, ABOUT IS IT GOING TO BE A J. D. VANCE REPUBLICAN PARTY?

IS IT GOING TO BE MARCO RUBIO?

IS IT GOING TO BE TUCKER CARLSON, FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE, WHO'S GOING TO BE THE STANDARD BEARER FOR A MOVEMENT?

WHAT DOES PROJECT 2029 LOOK LIKE?

WHO'S --WHAT IS THEIR VISION FOR THAT?

>> THEY WOULDN'T TELL ME WHAT'S IN PROJECT 2029.

IT'S NOT OUT YET, SO UNFORTUNATELY I DON'T HAVE ALL OF THE PREVIEWED SECRETS OF THE POLICY PROPOSALS OF PROJECT 2029.

BUT WHAT I WILL SAY IS THAT KEVIN ROBERTS IN PARTICULAR IS VERY BULLISH ON A KIND OF POPIALIST VISION FOR THE CONSERVATIVE MOVEMENT.

HE CARES VERY MUCH ABOUT SAVING WESTERN CIVILIZATION.

HE TALKS A LOT ABOUT IMMIGRATION, HE TALKS A LOT ABOUT VOTER FRAUD.

HE TALKS A LOT ABOUT THE FAMILY.

HE SEES THESE AS EXISTENTIAL THREATS TO AMERICA AND TO WHAT HE CALLS THE WEST.

AND SO I KNOW THAT AS HE MOVES FORWARD INTO THE NEXT COUPLE OF YEARS, THAT IS GOING TO BE THE PRIORITY FOR HERITAGE.

IT HAS THESE CORNERSTONE PRINCIPLES, WHICH IT RECENTLY PUBLISHED WHICH ARTICULATE A KIND OF VIEW OF THE CORNERSTONES OF SOCIETY OF WESTERN CIVILIZATION THAT HERITAGE WILL DEFEND, A DEPARTURE FROM SOME OF THOSE PAST POSITIONS THAT WERE REPUBLICAN STANDARD BEARER POSITIONS FOR MANY, MANY YEARS.

AND PRESIDENT ROBERTS HAS BEEN VERY, VERY PRAISING OF VICE PRESIDENT VANCE.

HE CAN'T REALLY TAKE AN EXPLICIT POSITION OR ENDORSE A CANDIDATE IN PARTICULAR BECAUSE HERITAGE IS A NON-PROFIT, SO THEY'RE NOT ALLOWED TO ENDORSE POLITICIANS IN THAT WAY.

BUT IT'S PRETTY CLEAR THAT THAT IS THE WING OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY THAT HE FEELS MUCH AVIBE WITH.

SO I THINK HERITAGE IS A PLAYER.

I THINK IT'S AIMPOSSIBLE FOR THEM NOT TO BE.

THEY HAVE TOO MUCH MONEY NOT TO BE ON THE TABLE.

BUT I THINK THE QUESTION IS WHEN THAT IDEA SET WENT OUT, WILL THEY BE ABLE TO GET THAT GROUND POLITICALLY AND WILL THEY BE ABLE TO WIN OVER PEOPLE IN WASHINGTON WHO IN SOME OF THESE OTHER CAMPS ARE EXTREMELY OPPOSED TO THAT DIRECTION?

NOT JUST FOR HERITAGE BUT FOR THE MOVEMENT.

>> EMMA GREEN, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TALKING WITH ME.

>> THANKS SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME ON.

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